“I’m saying it right now,” Homan said. “There’s still going to be more bloodshed unless they shut their mouth and let ICE enforce the laws that they enacted.”
DHS has acknowledged that neither of the men who have been shot in recent weeks was the target of the ICE operations that led to their deaths.
A witness reported that Guerrero shouted, “I tried to stop” after being shot by an agent while his vehicle moved forward slowly.
Here in Chile, when one President declared war on their people, we trashed the country until his governance was all but surrendered, and we even got the chance of making a new Constitution out of it (the idiots blew it, but that’s for Season 2 of the series). He got lucky to make it out of the Presidential building in one piece (we historically don’t like it when armed conflict touches the place).
What are the so-called American citizens doing?
America definitely needs to get a sense of urgency in change, but USA is a much larger, and spread out country than Chile; and it also has the largest & most well funded intelligence agencies helping the oligarchs maintain power.
Is the US even that long?
Yes actually. Chile is 2,653 miles long. The longest longitudinal distance in the continental US is 2,802 miles.
You have cars, yes?
I used longitudinal distance because I wasn’t 100% certain if the measurement for Chile is measuring a line between its two furthest points or just the distance between it’s northernmost and southernmost latitudes. If it’s the latter then it’s a fair comparison, and if it’s the former then Chile gets an unfair advantage but it doesn’t change the result.
Yes, places have geography. Let me know when you’re gonna riot against you government, because if you just want to talk about latitudes and other spherical circumferences all night, I’m afraid I’m already late for a towel folding urgency.
You sound like you need a geography lesson before you try to school anyone on civics.
We have many vastly different regions, so yes. The commonwealth, the South, the Midwest , the West, the Pacific Northwest, all very far apart and with different immediate concerns.
Yes. Chile is 2653 miles long/tall. The distance from San Diego to Portland (Maine) is 3100 miles. Just Alaska is 2145 miles wide when counting all the Aleutian Islands.
They do say spread out: the USA actually has a better population distribution than Chile and it’s big in two dimensions, whereas Chile is incredibly tall but also incredibly narrow (think: that goth guy).
That said, Chile is
longtall: we get from above our hemisphere’s tropic line to the friggin’ South pole.The difference is, our police are armed more heavily than some nations military. And our military is more heavily armed than nearly every other nation combined… And that’s forgetting that we’ve allowed technocrats to install nationwide government surveillance, tracking and recording. Both online and in public places.
It’s not so easy as just “revolt”.
What they have is organization. What we have is numbers.
Kind of like Russia has a numbers advantage in Ukraine.
Alright bro. You first.
Everyone wants a John Brown.
No one wants to be John Brown.
B-but … when MAGAts occasionally threaten ‘Antifa Communist Marxist Fascists’ on Twitter that they ‘won’t take their bullshit’ much longer, they inevitably pull ‘we have 220 milllion guns’ out of their arse.
That’s because they own like 40 guns themselves. At a certain point they stop being useful when you still only have two hands.
Well, with that amount of guns no one can really say you can’t share or teach (ie.: start an anti-fascism shooting school). I mean, th’all invented that Second Amendment for something, right?
Um… Our people are also heavily armed and have built personas around fighting for our freedom. The real truth is people don’t want to give up their comforts.
It is absolutely easy to revolt.
yea? it’s easy? So, you’ve done it, right? You personally? Care to describe your personal experience, what you faced and how easy it was?
Lol you think I’m presenting myself as above the rest of you? Your emotionally driven, predictable response is, well, predictable.
you irl:
Lol hardly. I know who I am and what I’m about. Some butthurt people on a niche social media platform downvoting and insulting me is as meaningful as holding up a sign at a scheduled protest.
Our people are heavily armed… compared to people in other countries. They are not heavily armed compared to even the police, let alone the military. Any violent revolt would be put down in days.
Guess we’ll just do nothing!
Seems like you have a head start there.
Oh? You know me, eh? Snark only works when it’s clever by the way.
Sure, but not in any organized way.
Ever been to Mexico?
The place that gets guns almost exclusively from the US?
Honestly? The average and median American still has I think the highest disposable income in the world even after accounting for cost of living short of places like Luxembourg. While they’re complaining, rightly, about their lot being worse compared to years past, most of them aren’t feeling a sort of financial squeeze that’s usually needed for that kind of revolutionary action yet.
The US has made a sort of deal with devil that’s still mostly paying off for the average citizen. Until the middle class specifically really feel the squeeze, and not just compared to themselves historically, I don’t see any revolutionary action happening.
Basically people have to start starving first.
And by then it’ll be too late because they are starving.
Armies, established or figurative, march on full stomachs. Even the BTS army.
This is what fascism is though. What you’re describing is being complicit in fascism.
Well, sort of. Fascism is more precisely a marriage of nationalism and a police state with a corporatocracy where one aids the other in their goals. Which you could definitely argue is what’s happening in the US, but isn’t really what my point was (and certainly shouldn’t be read as an endorsement!).
But yeah, that deal with devil is definitely a complicity. They’ve been willing to hand vast amounts of money, and rights, to the ruling class because they’re been being paid very well to do so. And I don’t see revolution happening until there’s either a critical mass of people reaching starvation levels of poverty, or the middle class sees all that wealth they traded their rights for evaporate.
Apart from those without healthcare eh?
Yeah, but crucially, the ones who are in a position to feel that need keenly enough are sick.
They often have more immediate concerns.
But that number is “only” ~25 million out of over 340 million, or about 7% give or take (double checked my numbers; slightly off, but still under 10%). And they’re likely in the worst position to do anything politically because they’re too busy surviving. There is a crisis of under insured, but most people don’t feel that pressure until it becomes a real problem, then they’re in the group that is too busy surviving to enact change. For most Americans, that disposable income number includes healthcare. There’s just a stupid amount of money in that country. And while there’s a huge gap and most goes to the top, enough goes to the middle class to keep them pacified.
I’m definitely not endorsing the US system; it’s a system of haves and have nots and embraces a wealth divide and can be pretty bleak. But most Americans just aren’t feeling as much of a financial punch as the complaints might let on.
(This isn’t to invalidate Americans who are struggling… been there, been homeless, it’s awful. But middle class America, even by European standards, is pretty ridiculously wealthy.)
The whole idea that you have no job you have no healthcare. Dreadful.
Ghettos everywhere. USA could be africa
Eh, that’s overstating it. It still is a stupidly rich country and professional working Americans tend to make more money than their European counterparts, even considering healthcare.
But yes, tying healthcare to employment comes with all sorts of problems and lets too many people not “poor enough” for Medicare to slip through the cracks. In my experience with a state Medicare system that gets good funding, the public system actually holds up quite well when looking at many of the European systems, at least here in central Europe where I live now… simply extending that to everyone would basically fix the problem. I’ve had good dental work, a fantastic pre natal and birth experience along with mending broken bones and such under a public system with no cost to me and honestly my experience was great.
Difference is in Europe we beleive society needs the lower earners and they deserve respect.
For a much more people oriented answer: I’m trying to survive. I’m trying to make sure my dad takes his medication right so he doesn’t die. I’m trying to figure out how to pay bills when the local government I work for gave everyone a 2% cost of living raise, then raised taxes 3% and gave the city manager a $26,000 raise even though he was already being paid close to $200k. The only other person I know that doesn’t think trump and all his cronies are the bees knees is elderly, has no retirement and is desperately trying to keep working despite health issues because her husband has cancer and she needs to keep working to pay his bills. Even if I made a ton of money and had help with my dad, I still wouldn’t be able to do anything because of my health, either (I am 100% that friend who would get eaten by the zombies first) I’m not young anymore, either.
I think the internet makes it seem like a lot more people hate what’s going on than there actually is. In my experience, i see a small number of crazy Trump fanatics, a small number of concerned and scared people, and then the vast majority just don’t care. At least for now. That’ll change when they started being affected. By then it’ll be too late.
To sum up: more people don’t give a shit than do. We haven’t reached the part of the poem where "Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak out for me. "
Nothing. And I get poo-pooed when I suggest this sort of thing. Fucking tired of this place, so much so that I’ve been looking to leave. It’s difficult. I just don’t think it’s worth fighting for anymore.
The fun (“fun”) thing is evaluating where to leave to. Other places that used to be cool, aren’t anymore.
My biggest concern is getting close to my aging parents without actually living in my home state of Florida. Fuck. I hate the idea of moving back.
Well that does sound like an issue. Then again it wouldn’t make much more difference where to move to within the US since my understanding is states like Florida and Texas can extradite people from other States (eg.: doctors), right?
Yes, but the state they are trying to extradite from has to cooperate for it to happen.
Do they have to? The extraditing state can just send ICE (aka: Pedophile’s Personal Pawns)
You know what’s funny? The USA installed Pinochet !
Yeah, as well as some other guys.
From here, that doesn’t look anywhere as funny I assure you :p
Part of it is scale. The usa has several individual states that are a larger population than Chile.
Which means more of an amount of people who should be able to do something.
salió de la moneda, pero igual no salió del helicóptero… que en pez descanse…
"que en pez descanse " qué lata que nunca se me ocurrió en su momento. ¡Felicidades! :p
Qué raro ver a un chileno acá… ándate pa la casa, wn! 😁. Saludos!
A’er tú y quién más mira que te traigo a las maigo la mojojojo la calila aí vamo a ver 😁 ¡Saludos igualmente y gracias!
“Estaba ese al que le dicen el car’e puta” 🤣
The braves from the land of the free are either:
cowering in fear
playing victim
pretending ThInGs ArE nOt tHaT bAd
all of the above
And you get downvoted for being right and calling it out. This is how it is.
They get downvoted because they attempt to mock instead of acknowledging reality of having the obstacles of the most powerful, and well funded 3 letter agencies subverting any attempt to enact real change in favor of the working class.
It’s just going to be harder than a smaller country that doesn’t have so many radically different regions.
I’ll take the unpopular point that I think is more relevant: it really isn’t that bad for me and likely a lot of other people
My costs are up but I can absorb it, and materially my life isn’t that different. America should 100% buck these fascists, and I think we’re fucked as a country given the bald faced corruption + bigotry, but if my experience holds true for most of the others then it’s still not bad enough to risk what we have.
People have to lose a lot more for things to change.
“Nice people made the best Nazis. My mom grew up next to them. They got along, refused to make waves, looked the other way when things got ugly and focused on happier things than “politics.” They were lovely people who turned their heads as their neighbors were dragged away. You know who weren’t nice people? Resisters.”
Naomi Shulman
And that’s why it took so long for WWII to happen. We haven’t even had a Reichstag fire yet.
We kind of did on Jan 6. It’s just that Trump suspended all of the consequences until his next term after Biden left office.
So because I don’t go around murdering people who vote Republican, I’m a Nazi?
That’s a viewpoint that will really win a debate. Also, I’m guessing that makes you a Nazi, seeing as you live in the US and don’t seem to be in prison right now.
In the US, we can vote for politicians and we can go to protests and speak out against things we don’t like. We can boycott companies and events. Anything more than that risks more than just “making waves.” People are being killed for protesting ICE.
The point the person you are calling a Nazi is trying to make is that things aren’t bad enough yet that normal people who are just trying to keep their families safe would be willing to commit violent acts. Are you out there doing more than just typing on a keyboard or holding up signs at a protest?
I didn’t call you a Nazi, but if you’re feeling attacked, maybe take some time to reflect. That said, you seem to be willing to do the short term protections for your family. What about the long term? A decade from now? Two decades?
Myopia is best friends with timidity.
Voting is broken here. With entities like AIPAC and the Epstein class manipulating our system, with politicians too scared to do the right thing, with our antiquated system of representation that has had every loophole exploited, to rely on voting to save us is about as short-sighted as one can get.
I am not in prison. I am, however, doing things and I’m unwilling to write any of it down, even if it’s on Lemmy.
No “blue wave” will save us in November if the newly elected officials do nothing to limit their own power, or set term limits, or impeach Trump and find him accountable.
Anything short of an uprising will fall short, and even that is not a guarantee. Meanwhile, people are asking ChatGPT what its favorite color is or for dating advice.
Yeah, things are degrading in the U.S. for everyone, but some faster than others. It’s easy to see the headlines that amplify the worst parts of America and think that’s life for everyone right now.
It probably will be soon enough, but not enough people are experiencing that quite yet, so that’s why there’s no urgency / mass outrage at the moment.