The thing is that, he was really on our side calling out a lot of the craziness. It’s hard to overlook the Riyadh thing. I haven’t followed him since, I still don’t know if he apologized or anything.
Still don’t know why he needed to … his career was on the up.
He seemed to be taken by surprise at the blowback from Riyadh. His reasoning was “the governments can suck, but the people are great. I perform for the people.” It’s a viewpoint convenient to his wallet, but now he doesn’t really bring it up.
He still sees his job is to speak truth to power and always punch up, not down, but I believe he is also ignorant of the totality of the Saudi’s evil. I’d rather try to bring him over to us than cast his voice aside.
If he admitted he fucked up because he didn’t know, I think he should get a pass. Not knowing every bad thing every group of people do shouldn’t be punished, there’s to many to keep track unfortunately. His response was very much lacking though.
Even Shane Gillis had the wherewithal to turn the offer down. Bill knew he was selling out and played the victim when people called him out for it. He put a price on his authenticity and sold it right off.
Every government in the world does tremendous evil if you look carefully enough. If boycotting comedy in horrible countries was a prerequisite for comedy, we would have no comedy.
Then you may want to look into some of the corporations and owners that run the stadiums comedians perform in. When he and john Stewart and a bunch of othes performed in Madison square garden a few days back, owned by trumps rich buddy, or basically any of the major venues in the USA, no one said anything. No one is innocent under capitalism, if you make money in this environment you have blood on your hands every day.
There’s effectively a monopoly on stadiums in the US (see Macklemore’s recent failure to secure stadiums for a US leg of his Free Palestine tour). Is there any way for an entertainer to have significant commercial success without getting in bed with a shitty steaming service, distributer or venue?
No one is innocent under capitalism, if you make money in this environment you have blood on your hands every day.
Yeah, I know this. But what is your point? Are you saying we should all just starve in the streets on principle? That we should just fuckit and YOLO cuz we can’t be perfect? That I should STFU about my ethical choices because no one can make perfect ethical choices in this late stage capitalist hellscape?
Maybe we should normalize accepting and maybe even celebrating people’s efforts to be a little better? I love cheese but I can admire someone for being an ethical Vegan.
I largely agree with much of what you’re saying. I just think people draw lines in odd ways. Bill burrs comedy subverts all of the commerce he supports. He seems to want the same type of people he makes money, to die. But everyone should cancel him over one show? His work is culturally supporting things we believe in. Certainly people should draw lines in the sand, but they should also look at the big picture.
Are you saying we should all just starve in the streets on principle?
Obviously the opposite, I’m saying people exist in a world filled to the brim with shitty people and connections to those shitty people are inevitable, especially if you gain success. I could probably find at least one cancelable offense in every famous person you respect, given enough time, probably everyone you know personally as well. We are quick to toss people aside in today’s world without taking the totality of who people are. If the totality of who they are is shitty that’s one thing, but if they are already a reasonably decent person this moral purity test is ridiculous.
Bill burrs response that he was told he could say what he wants, and it felt like in opportunity to reach an audience living under a strict authority, seems perfectly consistent with the rest of his public persona.
Along with Burr I think Carr, CK and Buress are smart and insightful and I miss their content, but they 100% knew who the show was for and that it’s an attempt to normalize an oppressive authoritarian regime. Performing for a repressed audience and planting seeds of new new ideas or bringing people together or whatever are all nice ideas but it feels like copium to justify the million dollar dirty paycheck. Maybe I’ll get over it eventually? I tend to hold grudges for a long time.
Side note: I do think it’s hillarious that Jim Jeffries kinda took a similar tack and said in an interview something like “they killed a journalist, so what? We kill journalists too. We killed Epstine” and they dropped him from the festival 😂
The money and power that person gets from their commerce makes that a pretty silly distinction, imo. I think the problem is really the story we tell our minds is easier to picture with a cartoon villain present in daily media we consume.
With that said, if I was in his shoes I wouldn’t have performed there, so im not exactly ready to die on this hill. I just think some of the lines we draw seem arbitrary, and stopping watching these comedians that have made all sorts of evil billionaires money, just because of one show under a shithead, seems silly.
I love Bill Burr, saw him like 5 times live.
The thing is that, he was really on our side calling out a lot of the craziness. It’s hard to overlook the Riyadh thing. I haven’t followed him since, I still don’t know if he apologized or anything.
Still don’t know why he needed to … his career was on the up.
He seemed to be taken by surprise at the blowback from Riyadh. His reasoning was “the governments can suck, but the people are great. I perform for the people.” It’s a viewpoint convenient to his wallet, but now he doesn’t really bring it up.
He still sees his job is to speak truth to power and always punch up, not down, but I believe he is also ignorant of the totality of the Saudi’s evil. I’d rather try to bring him over to us than cast his voice aside.
If he admitted he fucked up because he didn’t know, I think he should get a pass. Not knowing every bad thing every group of people do shouldn’t be punished, there’s to many to keep track unfortunately. His response was very much lacking though.
Even Shane Gillis had the wherewithal to turn the offer down. Bill knew he was selling out and played the victim when people called him out for it. He put a price on his authenticity and sold it right off.
Every government in the world does tremendous evil if you look carefully enough. If boycotting comedy in horrible countries was a prerequisite for comedy, we would have no comedy.
It’s not performing in Saudi Arabia that’s wrong. It’s that he performed for an evil regime.
Exactly. I also don’t fuck with anyone who performs for Trump.
Granted, that’s a pretty easy sacrifice given the level of talent Trump attracts.
Then you may want to look into some of the corporations and owners that run the stadiums comedians perform in. When he and john Stewart and a bunch of othes performed in Madison square garden a few days back, owned by trumps rich buddy, or basically any of the major venues in the USA, no one said anything. No one is innocent under capitalism, if you make money in this environment you have blood on your hands every day.
There’s effectively a monopoly on stadiums in the US (see Macklemore’s recent failure to secure stadiums for a US leg of his Free Palestine tour). Is there any way for an entertainer to have significant commercial success without getting in bed with a shitty steaming service, distributer or venue?
Yeah, I know this. But what is your point? Are you saying we should all just starve in the streets on principle? That we should just fuckit and YOLO cuz we can’t be perfect? That I should STFU about my ethical choices because no one can make perfect ethical choices in this late stage capitalist hellscape?
Maybe we should normalize accepting and maybe even celebrating people’s efforts to be a little better? I love cheese but I can admire someone for being an ethical Vegan.
I largely agree with much of what you’re saying. I just think people draw lines in odd ways. Bill burrs comedy subverts all of the commerce he supports. He seems to want the same type of people he makes money, to die. But everyone should cancel him over one show? His work is culturally supporting things we believe in. Certainly people should draw lines in the sand, but they should also look at the big picture.
Obviously the opposite, I’m saying people exist in a world filled to the brim with shitty people and connections to those shitty people are inevitable, especially if you gain success. I could probably find at least one cancelable offense in every famous person you respect, given enough time, probably everyone you know personally as well. We are quick to toss people aside in today’s world without taking the totality of who people are. If the totality of who they are is shitty that’s one thing, but if they are already a reasonably decent person this moral purity test is ridiculous.
Bill burrs response that he was told he could say what he wants, and it felt like in opportunity to reach an audience living under a strict authority, seems perfectly consistent with the rest of his public persona.
I dig where you’re coming from. The “subverting the commerce” feels a little like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifteen_Million_Merits but I still adore Rage Against the Machine, so 🤷🏾
Along with Burr I think Carr, CK and Buress are smart and insightful and I miss their content, but they 100% knew who the show was for and that it’s an attempt to normalize an oppressive authoritarian regime. Performing for a repressed audience and planting seeds of new new ideas or bringing people together or whatever are all nice ideas but it feels like copium to justify the million dollar dirty paycheck. Maybe I’ll get over it eventually? I tend to hold grudges for a long time.
Side note: I do think it’s hillarious that Jim Jeffries kinda took a similar tack and said in an interview something like “they killed a journalist, so what? We kill journalists too. We killed Epstine” and they dropped him from the festival 😂
Again, appearing in a venue owned by someone is different than performing directly for that person.
The money and power that person gets from their commerce makes that a pretty silly distinction, imo. I think the problem is really the story we tell our minds is easier to picture with a cartoon villain present in daily media we consume.
With that said, if I was in his shoes I wouldn’t have performed there, so im not exactly ready to die on this hill. I just think some of the lines we draw seem arbitrary, and stopping watching these comedians that have made all sorts of evil billionaires money, just because of one show under a shithead, seems silly.
And nobody would care if the the saudi regime got money out of a comedy show. This is not what the festival did was it?
What did it do exactly?