Eh I don’t really agree, depending on how simple you’re talking. Bags within bags, or dumbing things down to a grade school level, then sure, there are topics that can’t be described succinctly.
But if you’re talking about simplifying things down to the point that anyone who took a bit of undergrad math/science can understand, then pretty much everything can be described in simple and easy to understand ways.
Don’t get me wrong, I’ve seen many people at the top who can’t, but in every case, it’s not because of the topics’ inherent complexity, but either because they don’t actually understand the topics as well as they may seem, or because they lack the social skills (or time / effort / setting) to properly analogize and adjust for the listener.
The meme is about technical science jobs. There are absolutely technical science jobs where you cannot communicate key ideas and concepts without a) the person you’re describing it to needing more than “a bit of undergrad math/science” and b) if you try to explain it without using specialist terminology, you’ll spend an unnecessary hour for every quarter hour of content recalling the specialist definition of things because, for some reason, you refuse to use the precise word that the scientific community have agreed means exactly that.
I’ve progressed quite far in the technical science part of my job. I’m at the top end of the graph and encouraging my junior staff to simplify their language and message. Some things absolutely need technical terms, but they don’t need to use overly complicated words to say “this has moved up” or “this thing is bad”. More often meaning gets lost in using euphemisms instead of being clear about the message.
I’ve moved up the management role as well and really can’t bring myself to move from the bottom end of the meme graph. Management really has its own language so they can say lots of words in meetings with very little meaning. We’re in the business of doing shit…are we going to do shit or not?
If you’re communicating with another scientist about the actual work you’re doing then sure there are times when you need to be specific.
If you’re publishing official documentation on something or writing contracts, then yes, you also need to be extremely speciific.
But if you’re just providing a description of your work to a non-specialist then no, there’s always a way of simplifying it for the appropriate context. Same thing goes for most of specialist to specialist communication. There are specific sentences and times you use the precision to distinguish between two different things, but if you insist on always speaking in maximum precision and accuracy then it is simply poor communication skills where you are over providing unnecessary detail that detracts from the actual point you’re trying to convey.
No, I’m talking about engineers and scientists communicating with project managers, designers, lawyers, business people, and the many many other people who work in the same industry but do not have technical backgrounds.
And I am talking about the fact that believing that nothing is complicated and that complexity is always made up can be a dangerous, anti-intellectual and anti-academic argument.
Of course, if you’re talking with people who don’t need to actually do the job and only understand enough of it, and you still speak like to a specialist, you’re not only in the middle, but also potentially (but not necessarily) kind of a dick.
But reading this and your example, and the fact we seem to be miscommunicating somewhat, I do wonder this: English is not my first language, what do you include in “technical science job”? Is it a specific job or group of jobs? I took it to mean any job with tech or science workers.
EDIT: further explanation of what went through in my head, which may clarify interpretation and intent. Having the management lingo example made me interpret that curve as a: all this jargon is just bullshit and you could do better without it. Definitely true imo with management lingo.
But what I was trying to say, maybe poorly, is that some technical jargon, in some areas, is meaningful. Explaining in layman’s term is dumbing down. Nothing wrong with that when it fits the purpose, but you still sacrifice something in the process.
I agree with everything you’re saying, but even speaking specialist to specialist, or say to a group of specialist colleagues who might not be working on exactly what you’re working on, you still often simplify away the technical parts that aren’t relevant to the specific conversation you’re having, and use specific language on the parts that are, because that inherently helps the listener to focus on the technical aspects you want them to focus on.
Eh I don’t really agree, depending on how simple you’re talking. Bags within bags, or dumbing things down to a grade school level, then sure, there are topics that can’t be described succinctly.
But if you’re talking about simplifying things down to the point that anyone who took a bit of undergrad math/science can understand, then pretty much everything can be described in simple and easy to understand ways.
Don’t get me wrong, I’ve seen many people at the top who can’t, but in every case, it’s not because of the topics’ inherent complexity, but either because they don’t actually understand the topics as well as they may seem, or because they lack the social skills (or time / effort / setting) to properly analogize and adjust for the listener.
The meme is about technical science jobs. There are absolutely technical science jobs where you cannot communicate key ideas and concepts without a) the person you’re describing it to needing more than “a bit of undergrad math/science” and b) if you try to explain it without using specialist terminology, you’ll spend an unnecessary hour for every quarter hour of content recalling the specialist definition of things because, for some reason, you refuse to use the precise word that the scientific community have agreed means exactly that.
I’ve progressed quite far in the technical science part of my job. I’m at the top end of the graph and encouraging my junior staff to simplify their language and message. Some things absolutely need technical terms, but they don’t need to use overly complicated words to say “this has moved up” or “this thing is bad”. More often meaning gets lost in using euphemisms instead of being clear about the message.
I’ve moved up the management role as well and really can’t bring myself to move from the bottom end of the meme graph. Management really has its own language so they can say lots of words in meetings with very little meaning. We’re in the business of doing shit…are we going to do shit or not?
Well yeah, but that’s business bullshit speak, nothing to do with science!
Their literal entire first paragraph is about scientists doing it.
Using jargon for “this has moved up” or “this thing is bad” is not specific to science in any way.
Thanks, I gaslit myself into thinking I misunderstood what “technical science job” meant.
If you’re communicating with another scientist about the actual work you’re doing then sure there are times when you need to be specific.
If you’re publishing official documentation on something or writing contracts, then yes, you also need to be extremely speciific.
But if you’re just providing a description of your work to a non-specialist then no, there’s always a way of simplifying it for the appropriate context. Same thing goes for most of specialist to specialist communication. There are specific sentences and times you use the precision to distinguish between two different things, but if you insist on always speaking in maximum precision and accuracy then it is simply poor communication skills where you are over providing unnecessary detail that detracts from the actual point you’re trying to convey.
Anyone who took undergrad maths/science is not layman’s term.
I also disagree with this for the record but that’s besides the point.
It is for a white collar job where most people have degrees.
“amongst the people who understand the jargon and notations, jargon and notations are layman’s term”
Sure, I guess that’s true if you limit your sample, this is not what I took the meme to mean but ok.
No, I’m talking about engineers and scientists communicating with project managers, designers, lawyers, business people, and the many many other people who work in the same industry but do not have technical backgrounds.
And I am talking about the fact that believing that nothing is complicated and that complexity is always made up can be a dangerous, anti-intellectual and anti-academic argument.
Of course, if you’re talking with people who don’t need to actually do the job and only understand enough of it, and you still speak like to a specialist, you’re not only in the middle, but also potentially (but not necessarily) kind of a dick.
But reading this and your example, and the fact we seem to be miscommunicating somewhat, I do wonder this: English is not my first language, what do you include in “technical science job”? Is it a specific job or group of jobs? I took it to mean any job with tech or science workers.
EDIT: further explanation of what went through in my head, which may clarify interpretation and intent. Having the management lingo example made me interpret that curve as a: all this jargon is just bullshit and you could do better without it. Definitely true imo with management lingo.
But what I was trying to say, maybe poorly, is that some technical jargon, in some areas, is meaningful. Explaining in layman’s term is dumbing down. Nothing wrong with that when it fits the purpose, but you still sacrifice something in the process.
I agree with everything you’re saying, but even speaking specialist to specialist, or say to a group of specialist colleagues who might not be working on exactly what you’re working on, you still often simplify away the technical parts that aren’t relevant to the specific conversation you’re having, and use specific language on the parts that are, because that inherently helps the listener to focus on the technical aspects you want them to focus on.
Glad you agree that technical jargon can be used, and must be used, at the top of the bell curve. Be it always or sometimes.