Based. Get those AI whiners out.
There must be a /s missing there. 😄
Not at all. LLM 's are very useful. Yes they can write slop but they can also automate a lot of arbitrary work away. The AI hate has become a bit of a cult refusing the see the things LLM’s are useful for and only focussing on its faults.
The dev even took the effort to mark the LLM made changes but that only resulted in arbitrary whining.
AI bros try not to be assholes challenge [IMPOSSIBLE]
AI assisted coding is okay as long as you’re transparent about it and don’t do this shit.
AI assisted coding is okay as long as you’re transparent about it and don’t do this shit.
It allows idiots like me who cannot program for real to make some useful tools (I use it to make Basic scripts for my own use in LibreOffice, for example). That said, IMO it’s crucial that these things are self contained, at least for now. So far all LLMs are way too error prone and no way is the Lutris author reviewing all generated code. Nobody does. All productivity gains are lost then.
It looks like the issue submitter is trolling a number of projects on their personal anti-AI crusade. I would take it more seriously if they had reviewed any of the PRs and identified issues with them.
Yes AI slop is an issue (especially for maintainers) but it can still be a useful tool. If the maintainers want to use AI on their own code it should be their choice. Most forks fail because the righteous feeling of finally getting your own way on a repo you control usually falls away as you realise the people actually doing the work didn’t follow you.
Honestly the need for Lutris has gone way way down in the last couple years. I don’t know about forking it, but I think it’d be pretty easy to just avoid it. Less because there’s any concrete issues that I could point out, but more as a political statement and loss of confidence.
I had to google “Lutris” to remember what it was. I have it installed… I guess this post made me realize how little I use it and that I should uninstall the slop.
Honestly? It’s a front end for some other tools to play games on Linux, if someone finds a performance issue or security hole we can react, but if this makes the Maintainers’s life easier I don’t know how much I really care, John Henry can fork it if they want and show how much better work they do than Claude
How to drive off users and contributors in one easy step!
Is Step 1 - Be the target of a harassment campaign?
He removed the attribution because people are harassing him, it’s one thing to not want to use the tool but harassing an open source dev is way over the line. I don’t care about your opinion on AI, it doesn’t justify harassment.
The anti-AI crowd have, once again, gone way over the line. Nobody should be supporting this harassment.
Sincerely… if you can give a single shit about ai in code, you should be able to tell it was used. If you cannot differentiate human from ai authored code, you do not have a seat at the table. jeer from the soap boxes. code is not art. code is code. get over it. does it compile or run and do the thing, cool, fuck cares who or what wrote it. clutching pearls yall cant even define.
People use LLMs to code now, this is not news. Why is claude taking credit in the first place?
Anything generated by an LLM cannot claim copyright, per supreme court rulings. So it is critical to attribute the portions of code that cannot be licensed.
This… is incorrect. Generated code can and has been copyrighted, but not by the model generating it. Humans can get copyrights, digital entities cannot (nor can your pet monkey.) Now, can a human copyright code they did not author? Yes, absolutely. Courts only care that a human had a hand in as little as refining the output or making selections for the agent. Copyright claims look for exercised creative judgement and infringement on existing copyrights.
The Lutris team is small, not corporate, not speed obsessed, etc. I’m inclined to trust them to be among those developers who can use generated code without slopping nonsense all over a code base they know they will probably be stuck maintaining.
I hope someone did a Mutris fork.
Good that it don’t need this.
Tell me not to use your software without telling me not to use your software.
Lemmings being outraged is hilarious to me. We’re just gonna pretend the pre-LLM time period didn’t have people mindlessly copy paste code into all of our known projects? At least with LLMs you can keep asking questions/sources for each prompt response unlike in the past. In the past you’d just get rude remarks by someone who ultimately didn’t help you.
if you just straight up copypasta’d code before AI you were just as big of an idiot as these sloppers are.
We’re just gonna pretend the pre-LLM time period didn’t have people mindlessly copy paste code into all of our known projects?
No, IEatDaFeesh, that’s something that first-years do. Are you a first-year?
Ohh, so you invent your own code/algorithms for every project? I am assuming someone of your caliber doesn’t ever need to install packages with functions other people made (gasp) because that would be beneath you right? Even copying the code straight from the documentation is an insult to our intelligence! Developers who use LLMs as a search engine to find documentation are morally wrong because that leads to copying code from the documentation! You’re right, only first years would copy code outlined in the documentation!
You’ve opened my eyes because now I see that even using the base functions of a language is technically copying code from the creators of said language. I realize that I never wrote those sort functions in the backend so I’m committing computer science sin!
Every library my team has ever included in a project has gone through rounds of evaluation to make sure it is 1. publically trusted, 2. well tested, 3. and still in active development. I have no idea what this has to do with mindlessly copying code.
so you invent your own code/algorithms for every project?
If you’re going to submit an algorithm that isn’t maintained and you don’t know how it works, I’m not merging your pull request.
I’ve been using Lutris for several years, but after reading about the LLM additions, I’ve removed it from my system and am now solely using Heroic for my non-Steam games.
Been chewing this since yesterday. Okay, here is my two cents:
- yes, what LLM companies are doing is a problem. So dropping anything that has anything to do with their products is a sane way to make a statement
- yes, LLMs can be used effectively in development. Whether Lutris author has been using them well - I don’t know. Guess won’t bother to check either, have other things to do
- yes, doing the stunt with “good luck guessing what is what” is bullshit
Net total, given I’ve already dropped GNOME because of their culture: guess now I am dropping Lutris. Not because of AI per se, but because of “fuck you” move
What’s the replacement for lutris?
I’ve already replaced lutris with Heroic launcher + proton and wine-ge a year ago.
Lutris install script already didn’t work >50% of the time for me and battle.net always completely corrupts and messes up after a time on lutris and I have to reinstall it every few months, but has been going a year strong on heroic.
You can also always look at the lutris install scripts and install those components in heroic via winetricks. They were made by the community anyway.
Build one yourself
For games. I have replaced it with steam as you can load none steam games and run them under proton. I have had great success. Outside of games I’m not sure.
but because of “fuck you” move
The guy removed the attribution because he is being harassed.
The ‘fuck you’ move is the people harassing an open source dev. Those people are the source of the bad behavior, not the guy who volunteers his time maintaining an open source project for everyone to use.
The anti-AI crowd is toxic and need to fuck off. It’s one thing to have an opinion, it’s another thing to harass volunteers because they’re using tools that the crowd has a hateboner for.
The guy removed the attribution because he is being harassed
That may be, and he never mentions this in the now famous comment. Or was the message about Lutris being slop a harrasment? (question is genuine, I am somewhere in autistic spectrum)
The ‘fuck you’ move is the people harassing an open source dev
That is not a decent behaviour, no questions. His doing something preemptively in regards to something that he says he doesn’t see as an issue - that’s some bullshit. I am not against him using llm tools, but I am not ok with someone who can’t just say “this is how I am doing things, these are my reasons and they are enough for me, so fuck off (and/or be banned, if GitHub has such a thing)” and instead goes on with some ill-reasoned tyrade. Before anyone brings this up: yes, he also mentions depression, which is no small thing, so demanding crystal-cut reasoning is also bullshit, but that is not my point, the latter being that the guy needs some care, and doesn’t look like he understands that. Which means things are heading towards a disaster, sadly
That may be, and he never mentions this in the now famous comment. Or was the message about Lutris being slop a harrasment? (question is genuine, I am somewhere in autistic spectrum)
There was a lot of toxic conversations in Discord and on the forums for a while prior to his blowing up.
The dev hasn’t made a secret of his mental health struggles and he probably could have handled the situation a bit better. But, in the end, he’s a guy making a tool that helps the entire community and even if you think AI tools run on the blood of sacrificed puppies, it isn’t okay to harass someone personally.
Argue about water usage or power usage, copyright issues, etc… but as soon as they start attacking the person directly it has gone way too far. His response could have been better, but the blame should be completely on the anti-ai harassment squad and not the lack of PR skills of a volunteer developer.
Blame for different things:
Running around and cursing anyone using llm - that’s an idiotic thing to do, and he is not the one doing it, of course
not the lack of PR skills of a volunteer developer
That’s not what bothers me
But, in the end, he’s a guy making a tool that helps the entire community
While sacrificing his own life (time, energy, emotions, all it takes to keep doing it). That’s not worth it, damn it. Doing something just to say “good luck figuring this out on your own, if it bothers you that much, you stupid fucks” is a priority shift from “what is good for me/project/community” to “what to do with project to stop this toxic shit”. My answer is “Do nothing with the project. Get them to fuck off or get yourself out of their reach”. And my requirement of anyone in charge of anything is clarity
Edit: word “sacrificing” is important. Not sharing out of abundance, not serving out of devotion, but cutting from what he has and needs for the benefit of others
Oh I agree he’s handled it badly, I just don’t fault him much.
He’s just one guy who’s suddenly the target of tens or hundreds of people who’re directly harassing him everywhere that it is possible. He shouldn’t be put in that position and, as bad as his response is, he’s doing it in the context of a pressure and harassment campaign… not because he’s suddenly developed animosity for the community.
His response is bad, but the people creating the situation are the ones that shoulder the blame… imo.
On that we agree completely. Screaming “N is bad because llm was used to build it” is utter idiocy
Last point is enough for me to drop them for good
Net total, given I’ve already dropped GNOME because of their culture
what was wrong with gnome’s culture?
I use KDE BTW, I don’t want a fischer price/mac lookalike ui
- You want customisation? Use extensions
- We broke extensions, because
- Also, no API for extensions. Patch our code manually
No integrity in that see I, so drop them I do (Yoda voice)
Also refusing to make literally any compromise on cross-desktop protocols that everyone else wants, stalling progress for years
Gnome: Pissing off its userbase since 2011
