Age 25

c/Hog4Noobs moment

Done, but the dial up is going to take a while for the reply

I understand the logic, I just think it’s intellectually dishonest and dilutes the meaning of the word fascist to the point it becomes meaningless.

I dont think it does if they are increasingly fitting the definition. More over there is no definition for fascist; just traits of it. I recommend reading Umberto Eco’s “Ur Fascism” for it.

Still in my corner of the world. Libertarians (as they identify and are members of groups with that branding) only care about “government size” when it comes to helping others. Not a peep when discussing ICE or similar.

Im aware that libertarians online will say they are not real libertarians, but that is what all libertarians say about libertarians. Forgive me for not being concerned for what libertarians have to say about themselves.

Lots of people are calling conservativism and even libertarianism fascism

We do so because they keep siding with fascists and promoting their policies. They side with gutting social safety nets and worker/consumer protections.

Replacing the EPA with a market driven EPA is just not going to solve problems; otherwise the market would have before getting to the point of having an EPA.

Fascist want a small government because it will be easier for them to topple. Libertarians are at best naive to ally with them.

The end goal of many libertarian policy is to empower corporations (weather libertarians had that intention or not). The guilded age in US history is pretty much what we would go back to.

You can’t force social change from the top down.

I know what you mean. Still the free market didn’t end slavery or give us safe work places. In those issues libertarians today are consistently advocating for those who are against those civil liberties and worker protection. Hence why they have rightfully earned the view of being fascists.

Libertarians find themselves between a rock and a hard place, so they inevitably choose the side that overlaps most with them.

Yeah, there is a word for what they are overlapping with.

What progressives want is also authoritarian

I don’t see how prioritizing civil rights over property is authoritarian.

E: in principal I’m empathetic to the want to be left alone aspects of libertarians. History informs us that many of their ideas don’t work. Even by their own logic of robust individuals they do not work.

I wouldn’t qualify as helping fascists but a lot of progressives do, which is imo a little bit intellectually dishonest.

We are just treating libertarians for what they are. Not by what they claim to be.

libertarianism fertilizes right wing conservatism, is that it advocates against balancing systems of control (government). This means that since there is no entity intervening in affairs, there is nothing keeping a more excessively authoritarian entity from emerging. This is an oversimplification, but basically right-wing authoritarians want to weaken authority (even more benevolent ones) so that they can take additional power. (Again oversimplification, I also don’t like considering groups as monoliths)

Basically proto rightwing forces, can march in lockstep with libertarians because they both initially advocate for the removal of governing,regulatory, and policing institutions.

Thus I think this is what causes people to see libertarians and conservatives as overlapping, as both initially support the same goals and probably can be found in similar spaces. Once prevailing (more benevolent, or less malevolent) insutituions are removed, by joint action of libertarians and authoritarians, the authoritarins break with the libertarians and can now install their definately more malevolent instituion. (This malevolence may be incidental or the end goal, it depends)

If libertarians don’t want to be seen as fascist, then they should stop welcoming them.

The second paragraph is ultimately what libertarians are and as such how I engage them.

libertarians and even some liberals as fascists and that just doesn’t hold up

It’s fair. The entire word “libertarian” was created to distance themselves from liberals.

Otherwise these ‘libertarians’ would have just been liberal and defended liberalism (human rights), and liberal society might have been able to fight off the mammon.

If you aid conservatives/confederates and the corporate cause, it is not unnatural to be associated with them.

What?

if we will wait and hope the invisible hand of the market will fix it…

Have we lost faith in our handsome businessman? /s

He learned his lesson in 95 when shipping wezzer with PCs

Well those look completely impractical

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Fallout 2 - Low Intelligence Speech Checks

Look at Mr. Fatcat over here. Bet they salt their lentils too!