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If your first instinct as a westerner is to criticize and lecture 3rd world communist movements, instead of learning from their successes, then you have internalized the patronizing arrogance of the colonial system you claim to oppose.
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If your first instinct as a westerner is to criticize and lecture 3rd world communist movements, instead of learning from their successes, then you have internalized the patronizing arrogance of the colonial system you claim to oppose.
There are two classes, the bourgeoisie and the proletariat. There’s myriad bourgeois ideologies and myriad proletarian ideologies. When the proletarians come to power, the bourgeoisie oppose their ideology and their state. That’s true of third world communist projects.
Nope, there are as many people and they are different. The buregoise are a plague a systematic plague and you help them by having a class war that they become desperate to win. We can have beneficial policy and support each other while dismantling the oligarchy without being feral assholes ourselves
What are you talking about? The “peaceful” status quo is already a class war. Capitalism is devouring the planet by creating conditions that will inevitably displace hundreds of millions of people as ecosystems collapse over the next ~20 years. I don’t even want to imagine how many people are going to die of starvation, heat stroke, or gunned down at the borders by the fascist stormtroopers. That is a level of violence that no socialist state has ever unleashed on the world, not even in WW2. There is no “beneficial policy.” Capital only responds to profit, that’s why workers strike instead of appealing to the good nature of their employers. Don’t you think the same applies to the whole system? The capitalists, executives of energy companies for example, have known they were destroying the world for decades. In the early 2000s they were writing letters to the Bush admin asking the government to put stronger regulations on them, because capital is entirely incapable of stopping itself from the race to the bottom, to make the most profit possible out of the exploitation of labor and natural resources. You should seriously consider how possible it is to stop these processes without revolution.
Why should I consider that when I haven’t expressed that standpoint? What do you mean there exists no “beneficial policy”? There is a class war yes and I aim to win it. You seem to want to attack random people with facts you absorbed about how bad capitalism is. Rage bait consumer is just another hook in capitalism you eat greedily. You give nothing to improve or develop an actual communist uprising except hatred. Why should I be lashed you imagine as if I am a pig of the greediest cunts? You have zero interest in actually growing political movements and culture, and an intense fire at breaking society down. It is symptomatic of capitalism and you will most likely not be freed from it by dismantling anything but will carry this hate your life out and point it to new things until it kills you. Your hate is manufactured and consumed just like any capitalist product
It seems like you think I want some kind of idiotic peaceful revolution? Or why post that?
You never explained what you believe in. You just came here with a kneejerk reaction to the meme that criticizes the way westerners often do want an idiotic peaceful revolution, when we explained why we disagreed with your reaction you have just been on a tirade against “hate” which is deeply anti-materialist. If you agree with the revolutionary agenda then by all means, I’m sorry for dogpiling you, but you shouldn’t spend so much energy arguing against people who also agree with you on the broad strokes?
I vehemently disagree with every reply and the op though. I think the intensely self explanatory “hate” you employ is not useful for the intent it pretends to be useful for. It does nothing and in fact is to the detriment of any actual revolution in a real impactful way. The increasingly under educated people are interacting with even more clueless hate mongering and it becomes impossible to move out of the capitalist quagmire. It plays into their hand. The consuming and proliferation of this hatred is CONTENT, rage bait content fueling capitalism and disillusioning actual interested people.
But how do you expect people to pick up weapons and fight a revolution without understanding just how horrible capitalists have been to them? I don’t think people should be guided by hate, I agree with you there, solidarity is much better than hate as a guiding principle. But the way I see it, people already hate a lot. They hate minorities, the homeless, foreigners, entire foreign states, etc. etc. So the function of our agitating propaganda is to redirect the hate that people feel towards things that haven nothing to do with their oppression into the actual source of their oppression, the capitalist system.
These were your words from the previous comment. Are you against class war or not?
And when I say there’s no beneficial policy I mean you won’t ever get lasting reforms by electing better politicians, you’ll just get temporary concessions that will be taken away the next time there’s a crisis. I think looking at the fall of European social democracy since the dissolution of the USSR should prove my point: European workers opted for just getting “beneficial policy” instead of revolution, and now the benefits are gone.
Against class war? What does that matter for our discussion? There is a class war going on right now.
If there is no benificial policy, you should not argue or fight any revolution. Why do you keep talking about cases where there is concession with hyper capitalist corpos as if that is what defines beneficial policy? What are you smoking?
I thought when you were talking about fighting for beneficial policy what you meant was running electoral races trying to elect progressive candidates. IMO the better way to describe a revolutionary state is that it’s a whole new system with a different structure, it’s not just a matter of “policy.” Talking purely in terms of policy is missing the forest for the trees.
Can you please explain to me how the whole new better system works without policy?? You are in the forest. The trees are around you. You are being attacked by trees and say no look at the sea and there is no sea. You’re missing the trees, the forest, and the sea actually, for just blind flailing
I never said there wouldn’t be policy, lol.
Let me put it in other terms. Focusing on just “changing the policy” is like if you were a restaurant and they served you a plate full of sewage and you told your dinner party “ok we really need to make sure we get some better ingredients put in this thing.”
I don’t think we really disagree here. What I actually support concretely is for workers to have stronger unions that are linked to socialist parties and those socialist parties should build parallel power structures, armed and unarmed alike, that eventually threaten and destroy the capitalist state to replace it with a socialist state. Then that socialist state should tend to the needs of the working class, developing productive forces and redistributing wealth to create better outcomes. That would be done through what you call “beneficial policies.” I just think that when you only talk about the “beneficial policy” to a public that’s mainly used to hearing about reform rather than revolution it is easily co-opted by social democrats.