Less than a quarter of schoolboys in the Netherlands have a positive view of homosexuality, almost half the proportion of four years ago, according to a Europe-wide survey. The HBSC (Health Behaviour in School-Aged Children) poll found that just 22% of boys aged 12 to 16 had a positive view of homosexuality, compared to 40% the last time the survey was carried out in 2021. Gonneke Stevens, professor of Social and Behavioural Sciences at Utrecht University, said there was a...
The sad reality is that the left has been focusing on the wrong issues for some time now and when people are getting really worried about housing and healthcare they don’t see politicians waving rainbow flags as the people that can help them. The far-right obviously is not going to fix anything either but in tough times people look for strong leaders that offer simple solutions so more and more people are slowly drifting to the right.
It’s not exactly the same everywhere so I’m not talking about Dutch left specifically but about the left in general. In many places they have been focusing on identity politics instead of income inequality and related issues. In Spain for example Podemos was more worried about gender violence and trans issues than jobs for young people. They eventually lost most of their support and were replaced in the coalition by Sumar which is more focused on issues like housing and healthcare. You could see this clearly in recent elections in Andalusia were the far-left parties focused on those issues and did really well preventing far-right Vox from registering any gains. Identity politics are of course important but I would say the shift needed to happen 10 years ago when priorities of voters started charging. When people feel secure the wellbeing of minorities is their main concern but when times get tough they want politicians to focus on issues that affect them personally. Mamdani is another example. Look what he is running on (and DSA program in general) and look what Kamala Harris run on. From wikipedia:
“Harris’s domestic platform was similar to Biden’s on most issues.[15] She supported national abortion protections, LGBT+ rights, stricter gun control, and legislation to address climate change.”
vs
“His platform included support for free city buses and a rent freeze in rent-stabilized housing.[87][88] Mamdani also wanted the city government to operate five grocery stores”
The Dutch population has been increasing by a steady 0.28% year on year [1] While the birth rate has been stable since the baby boomers at 1.6~ [2]
Dutch immigration predominantly from economic migrants (aka expats) have economic tax breaks making the city centres mostly English speaking. This makes it very difficult for left wing that gain memberships from universities to interact with the lower class that have been driven out of cities by center right market capitalism and a growing additional English speaking bourgeois class.
Center right have exasperated this by refusing to build more housing, the center left have gaslight by using the government’s capitalist policy-to-economic-growth calculations.
Now we have a left with an identity crisis a center that’s very very happy with the economic system of extraction and a growing far-right that talks about Sociaal Rechts tegen de Linkse elite. Go to the book shop and you find “left” authors who live in the expensive city center: actual book: “De Domheid Regeert” where the author, self proclaimed left, complains about stupidity of the working class. Of course the far right love to associate immigrants with refugees because colour. And create the standard National Socialist talking points of nuclear white families and the dangers of LHBTI, further dividing the working class from the actual Left (PvdD SP Bij1)
Downvoters: I’m interested to hear how population increase will enact material progress to the Dutch lower class in housing and job security in a country that has a higher density than Japan [3].
P.S. I’m following the policies set by SP who ask for stricter rules and reasonable limits for economic immigrants, to be clear these policies are vastly different from those of fascists who strive for remigration/ isolationism/ turning down refugees [4].
However, the last left-wing cabinet in the Netherlands was in 1973, and the last cabinet with significant left wing participation ended in 2002. So 24 years of center/right coalition. Seems people have to be pretty much brainwashed to believe some left wing party is the cause of their suffering.
I didn’t say the issue is that people blame the left for all their problems. I said they don’t think the left has any solutions. It sounds like in Netherlands the center/right coalitions also didn’t solve their problems so they are slowly drifting father to the right. Not because far-right is so great at solving problems but because the narrative they have is easy to understand and it appeals to people in tough times.
what serious policy proposals has the left had in the past 20 years?
the left basically floats around being ‘we’re not as bad as the other guys but don’t expect much from us’ and only seems to succeed where the right fucks up. They don’t have a postie policy agenda and they haven’t had one since the 1980s. and that’s not how you get votes, build coalitions, or govern effectively.
and it’s systematic across many western countries.
Yes, the left is basically just pushing back on what the right is doing. The right tries to privatize healthcare and public transport and the left is against it. They sometimes handle the economy better than the right but they don’t propose any real solutions, just try to keep the current system running smoothly. They stop short of actually fixing anything. In Spain they managed to pass a flawed criminal law reform that changed definition of rape and flawed policy that allowed for rent control but I’m still waiting for them to bank single use vapes - it’s apparently very complicated thing to do…
yeah and that’s why they suck and people don’t like them.
they don’t have a positive vision. their entire platform is ‘we’re not the other guys, they are bad’.
they don’t lead. they just make excuses. and yeah, they don’t fix anything.
What we need is leftists who… do something. Turns out… that’s very very appealing to voters. Just look at Mandami in NYC… guy articulated a clear vision and is executing it… and the voters adore him. But a lot of leftists HATE him because they… are so unable to get their heads out of their own asses and put form a legitimate and achievable platform of reform.
The problem with most modern left-wing parties is they just… want to get into power and do nothing with the power.
The problem with most modern left-wing parties is they just… want to get into power and do nothing with the power.
I think that’s a problem with most establishment parties everywhere. The pact between voters and ruling class was broken. Most career politicians don’t serve us any more. In EU you can at least argue that they want to preserve the system and uphold the law but everything is collapsing too fast and they are too divided and weak to stop it.
Seems like something is missing in this explanation though. If people don’t blame left wing, and are just voting right to find a solution to their problems, then why is LGBT support plummeting (topic or this article)? There is no relationship between LGBT rights and the housing shortage.
because it’s all anyone talks about on the media/internet.
i mean you’re here on lemmy… can you go here a day or an hour without someone going on and on about how LGBT is superior and straight people are shitty and awful?
What do you think that kind of media environment does to people? it doesn’t really win them over to your side…
Because right wing ideology is a package. Conservative politics claim that traditional values are the way to go and that everything was better when everyone was white and Christian, women stayed in the kitchen and gays couldn’t marry. You can see it right now in Spain were young kids are suddenly supporting Franco claiming that “back in the day” everyone had a job, there was no crime and everyone was happy. It obviously not true but young people believe it and buy with the entire “traditional values” package. Attacks on LGBT people are also up in Spain because of that even though the main concern of young people is housing.
the far right at least acknowledge the problems. the left basically refuses to acknowledge them because they have invested so much in the ‘men are the source of all evil’ narrative.
and young men basically see ‘why would i support people that hate me.’
and weirdly enough when ‘left wing’ politicians focus on economic issues and not social issues… young men tend to support them… weird.
yeah, because that’s where the kids are and that’s what they are learning.
you can mock it all you want, but it’s their primary source of information about the world.
i find it hilarious how the media ‘doesn’t get it’ why young people are this way… well because the media is full of old farts who they don’t listen to. they also think anyone over 30 is old. i have four teeange nephews… everything is tiktok and discord. there is nothing else. even instagram is considered weird and old to them.
and they are anti-progressive and pro traditionalism. they think lgbt people are annoying and whiny and get unfair advantages in life, and they are very angry that everyone blames them for societies problems because they are boys, when all they are trying to do is figure shit out, and nobody is helping them. and when they ask for help, they get mocked and told to go fuck themselves because they are ‘privileged white boys’.
why would not want to go back to a society where they were treated better? nobody has any empathy for them or their problems and they know it.
Yes, the retirement age is 65 for men and 60 for women. I think historically the explanation was that women spend more time taking care of children or something. Today it’s hard to justify so younger men are often complaining about it.
and they are anti-progressive and pro traditionalism. they think lgbt people are annoying and whiny and get unfair advantages in life, and they are very angry that everyone blames them for societies problems because they are boys, when all they are trying to do is figure shit out, and nobody is helping them. and when they ask for help, they get mocked and told to go fuck themselves because they are ‘privileged white boys’.
Lmao, a couple dumbfuck teenagers thinking they’re oppressed = leftists blame men as the source of all evil 😂
Yes, the retirement age is 65 for men and 60 for women. I think historically the explanation was that women spend more time taking care of children or something. Today it’s hard to justify so younger men are often complaining about it.
Was this supposed to be the example of leftists calling men the source of all evil? Even a screenshot from the nichest corners of Tumblr would’ve been better than this.
Lmao, a couple dumbfuck teenagers thinking they’re oppressed = leftists blame men as the source of all evil 😂
this is exactly why they are the way they are. you don’t think they are people. your replies here are exactly why they are becoming conservative… because conservatives don’t shit all over them them for existing.
It’s simple dude. If I got up in your face and called you a stupid piece of shit… then asked you to vote for my side… you’d want? be happy to do that?
if you want young men to vote for your side, stop calling them ‘dumbfuck teenagers’.
If you called me a stupid piece of shit, and I was somebody who was claiming to be oppressed for being a male teenager, you’d completely be in the right. You would knock some sense into me as well maybe.
And claiming that I’m dehumanizing teenagers is fucking hilarious 🤣. Are you a male rights activist perchance? And are you going to show me leftists (not Xitter/Tumblr liberals) claiming that “Men are the source of all evil” or not?
You are entirely missing the point, but it doesn’t matter because you won’t see it anyway. You’re so blinded by your own righteousness and hate, that anything you do is correct, and anything anyone else does is wrong.
and young men basically see ‘why would i support people that hate me.’
I think this is true mostly in more sexist societies where men lost a lot of privileges they traditionally had and are now pushing back (USA and Spain for example). In Poland this “all men are evil” wave of feminism wasn’t that visible and now the resentment is more about focusing too much on women issues instead of equality (like “it’s unfair that women get to retire earlier”). It’s still there but it’s definitely secondary issue. At the same time Poland was always more xenophobic than western Europe so immigration is the main issue drummed up by the far right there. It’s the same mix but different proportions.
Yes, the retirement age is 65 for men and 60 for women. I think historically the explanation was that women spend more time taking care of children or something. Today it’s hard to justify so younger men are often complaining about it.
The sad reality is that the left has been focusing on the wrong issues for some time now and when people are getting really worried about housing and healthcare they don’t see politicians waving rainbow flags as the people that can help them. The far-right obviously is not going to fix anything either but in tough times people look for strong leaders that offer simple solutions so more and more people are slowly drifting to the right.
I’m not sure what you mean. What do you think the Dutch left has been focusing on and what do you think they should have been focusing on instead?
It’s not exactly the same everywhere so I’m not talking about Dutch left specifically but about the left in general. In many places they have been focusing on identity politics instead of income inequality and related issues. In Spain for example Podemos was more worried about gender violence and trans issues than jobs for young people. They eventually lost most of their support and were replaced in the coalition by Sumar which is more focused on issues like housing and healthcare. You could see this clearly in recent elections in Andalusia were the far-left parties focused on those issues and did really well preventing far-right Vox from registering any gains. Identity politics are of course important but I would say the shift needed to happen 10 years ago when priorities of voters started charging. When people feel secure the wellbeing of minorities is their main concern but when times get tough they want politicians to focus on issues that affect them personally. Mamdani is another example. Look what he is running on (and DSA program in general) and look what Kamala Harris run on. From wikipedia:
“Harris’s domestic platform was similar to Biden’s on most issues.[15] She supported national abortion protections, LGBT+ rights, stricter gun control, and legislation to address climate change.”
vs
“His platform included support for free city buses and a rent freeze in rent-stabilized housing.[87][88] Mamdani also wanted the city government to operate five grocery stores”
Okay I’ll bite; Immigation yes actually
The Dutch population has been increasing by a steady 0.28% year on year [1] While the birth rate has been stable since the baby boomers at 1.6~ [2]
Dutch immigration predominantly from economic migrants (aka expats) have economic tax breaks making the city centres mostly English speaking. This makes it very difficult for left wing that gain memberships from universities to interact with the lower class that have been driven out of cities by center right market capitalism and a growing additional English speaking bourgeois class.
Center right have exasperated this by refusing to build more housing, the center left have gaslight by using the government’s capitalist policy-to-economic-growth calculations.
Now we have a left with an identity crisis a center that’s very very happy with the economic system of extraction and a growing far-right that talks about Sociaal Rechts tegen de Linkse elite. Go to the book shop and you find “left” authors who live in the expensive city center: actual book: “De Domheid Regeert” where the author, self proclaimed left, complains about stupidity of the working class. Of course the far right love to associate immigrants with refugees because colour. And create the standard National Socialist talking points of nuclear white families and the dangers of LHBTI, further dividing the working class from the actual Left (PvdD SP
Bij1)Downvoters: I’m interested to hear how population increase will enact material progress to the Dutch lower class in housing and job security in a country that has a higher density than Japan [3].
P.S. I’m following the policies set by SP who ask for stricter rules and reasonable limits for economic immigrants, to be clear these policies are vastly different from those of fascists who strive for remigration/ isolationism/ turning down refugees [4].
However, the last left-wing cabinet in the Netherlands was in 1973, and the last cabinet with significant left wing participation ended in 2002. So 24 years of center/right coalition. Seems people have to be pretty much brainwashed to believe some left wing party is the cause of their suffering.
I didn’t say the issue is that people blame the left for all their problems. I said they don’t think the left has any solutions. It sounds like in Netherlands the center/right coalitions also didn’t solve their problems so they are slowly drifting father to the right. Not because far-right is so great at solving problems but because the narrative they have is easy to understand and it appeals to people in tough times.
they think that because… they don’t.
what serious policy proposals has the left had in the past 20 years?
the left basically floats around being ‘we’re not as bad as the other guys but don’t expect much from us’ and only seems to succeed where the right fucks up. They don’t have a postie policy agenda and they haven’t had one since the 1980s. and that’s not how you get votes, build coalitions, or govern effectively.
and it’s systematic across many western countries.
Yes, the left is basically just pushing back on what the right is doing. The right tries to privatize healthcare and public transport and the left is against it. They sometimes handle the economy better than the right but they don’t propose any real solutions, just try to keep the current system running smoothly. They stop short of actually fixing anything. In Spain they managed to pass a flawed criminal law reform that changed definition of rape and flawed policy that allowed for rent control but I’m still waiting for them to bank single use vapes - it’s apparently very complicated thing to do…
yeah and that’s why they suck and people don’t like them.
they don’t have a positive vision. their entire platform is ‘we’re not the other guys, they are bad’.
they don’t lead. they just make excuses. and yeah, they don’t fix anything.
What we need is leftists who… do something. Turns out… that’s very very appealing to voters. Just look at Mandami in NYC… guy articulated a clear vision and is executing it… and the voters adore him. But a lot of leftists HATE him because they… are so unable to get their heads out of their own asses and put form a legitimate and achievable platform of reform.
The problem with most modern left-wing parties is they just… want to get into power and do nothing with the power.
I think that’s a problem with most establishment parties everywhere. The pact between voters and ruling class was broken. Most career politicians don’t serve us any more. In EU you can at least argue that they want to preserve the system and uphold the law but everything is collapsing too fast and they are too divided and weak to stop it.
the right seems to be a lot more effective in enacting their agenda…
Seems like something is missing in this explanation though. If people don’t blame left wing, and are just voting right to find a solution to their problems, then why is LGBT support plummeting (topic or this article)? There is no relationship between LGBT rights and the housing shortage.
because it’s all anyone talks about on the media/internet.
i mean you’re here on lemmy… can you go here a day or an hour without someone going on and on about how LGBT is superior and straight people are shitty and awful?
What do you think that kind of media environment does to people? it doesn’t really win them over to your side…
Because right wing ideology is a package. Conservative politics claim that traditional values are the way to go and that everything was better when everyone was white and Christian, women stayed in the kitchen and gays couldn’t marry. You can see it right now in Spain were young kids are suddenly supporting Franco claiming that “back in the day” everyone had a job, there was no crime and everyone was happy. It obviously not true but young people believe it and buy with the entire “traditional values” package. Attacks on LGBT people are also up in Spain because of that even though the main concern of young people is housing.
the far right at least acknowledge the problems. the left basically refuses to acknowledge them because they have invested so much in the ‘men are the source of all evil’ narrative.
and young men basically see ‘why would i support people that hate me.’
and weirdly enough when ‘left wing’ politicians focus on economic issues and not social issues… young men tend to support them… weird.
Did you get this idea of left/right politics completely from TikTok or something?
yeah, because that’s where the kids are and that’s what they are learning.
you can mock it all you want, but it’s their primary source of information about the world.
i find it hilarious how the media ‘doesn’t get it’ why young people are this way… well because the media is full of old farts who they don’t listen to. they also think anyone over 30 is old. i have four teeange nephews… everything is tiktok and discord. there is nothing else. even instagram is considered weird and old to them.
and they are anti-progressive and pro traditionalism. they think lgbt people are annoying and whiny and get unfair advantages in life, and they are very angry that everyone blames them for societies problems because they are boys, when all they are trying to do is figure shit out, and nobody is helping them. and when they ask for help, they get mocked and told to go fuck themselves because they are ‘privileged white boys’.
why would not want to go back to a society where they were treated better? nobody has any empathy for them or their problems and they know it.
Lmao, a couple dumbfuck teenagers thinking they’re oppressed = leftists blame men as the source of all evil 😂
Was this supposed to be the example of leftists calling men the source of all evil? Even a screenshot from the nichest corners of Tumblr would’ve been better than this.
this is exactly why they are the way they are. you don’t think they are people. your replies here are exactly why they are becoming conservative… because conservatives don’t shit all over them them for existing.
It’s simple dude. If I got up in your face and called you a stupid piece of shit… then asked you to vote for my side… you’d want? be happy to do that?
if you want young men to vote for your side, stop calling them ‘dumbfuck teenagers’.
If you called me a stupid piece of shit, and I was somebody who was claiming to be oppressed for being a male teenager, you’d completely be in the right. You would knock some sense into me as well maybe.
And claiming that I’m dehumanizing teenagers is fucking hilarious 🤣. Are you a male rights activist perchance? And are you going to show me leftists (not Xitter/Tumblr liberals) claiming that “Men are the source of all evil” or not?
You are entirely missing the point, but it doesn’t matter because you won’t see it anyway. You’re so blinded by your own righteousness and hate, that anything you do is correct, and anything anyone else does is wrong.
I think this is true mostly in more sexist societies where men lost a lot of privileges they traditionally had and are now pushing back (USA and Spain for example). In Poland this “all men are evil” wave of feminism wasn’t that visible and now the resentment is more about focusing too much on women issues instead of equality (like “it’s unfair that women get to retire earlier”). It’s still there but it’s definitely secondary issue. At the same time Poland was always more xenophobic than western Europe so immigration is the main issue drummed up by the far right there. It’s the same mix but different proportions.
wait, women get to retire earlier?
Yes, the retirement age is 65 for men and 60 for women. I think historically the explanation was that women spend more time taking care of children or something. Today it’s hard to justify so younger men are often complaining about it.