my favorite classic roguelike is tales of maj’eyal with a(n ancient) dual classing mod installed. my favorite final fantasy is XII the zodiac age. my favorite borderlands is wonderlands (still kinda mid though). i loved baldur’s gate 3 and the owlcat pathfinder games. my peak arpg is path of exile with titan quest 2 earning an honorable mention.
what are your favorite rpgs and rpg adjacent games that include in depth, flexible class systems?
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one thing i’ll add is that i’ve heard good things about guild wars 1, rift, and ff11 but have struggled to break into them. the only MMO that’s ever really stuck with me is wow, and i play that super casually now. i had fun on ascension (customizable class private server) for a week or two but the classic experience doesn’t grip me like it used to.
For this one specific thing? The Elder Scrolls and Ultima series. As well as Shadowrun in the TTRPG space.
They don’t have classes. They just have attributes and skills, so you can make whatever class you want just mix and matching stats and skills together.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaand I’m a sneak archer.
I find that trope funny as hell because the way I play, I start being sneaky and end with just sprinting into people’s face with a giant hammer as loudly as I can because you eventually become an expert in every single skill and nothing can hurt you because you have four bajillion points of armor in just your bracers.
Suggesting classless games for someone asking for class based games is a bold move.
Is it really classless if you can be all of the classes? 😌
Look into the Disgaea series (JRPG) and Grim Dawn if you want to play the spiritual successor to Titan Quest.
I would love if someone made a game that is the midpoint in complexity between PoE and Grim Dawn, but I feel like I might be dreaming for awhile
disgaea is great! i haven’t picked it up since they made the switch to 3d but i grew up a huge fan of nippon ichi’s catalogue.
i also like grim dawn and played through it again with some mods back when the steam deck first launched. isn’t it getting new content soon?
Yes, there’s a big DLC coming I believe. It’s definitely worth it if you haven’t played Grim Dawn
If you don’t need super fancy graphics and don’t mind some walls of text, both of Owlcat’s Pathfinder games, Kingmaker and Wrath of the Righteous, are absurdly intricate character builders. There are probably 20 classes, close to 100 subclasses? You can generally mix and match them as you wish other than not being able to take two sublasses of the same class.
Both games also include a roguelike mode DLC that can be played separate from the main campaign, which are mostly combat and great for testing new builds.
Do yourself a favor and install the mods that let you define your standard buff set and cast it as a macro. Otherwise you’re gonna spend a lot of time manual buffing between fights.
KM buffbot: https://www.nexusmods.com/pathfinderkingmaker/mods/119
WOTR bubblebuffs: https://www.nexusmods.com/pathfinderwrathoftherighteous/mods/195
I liked Etrian Odyssey IV’s subclass flexibility so much that I had a hard time going back to Etrian Odyssey Untold without it.
Gotta play Grim Dawn
You already named Baldur’s Gate 3, and I don’t think I’ve found one more interesting or elegant than D&D 5e. Maybe other folks are more well-traveled than I am, but I’ve played most of your examples, and 5e still takes the cake. You can still do better, especially since not every attribute is equally important across classes, but it still makes for fun synergies as is.
Baldur’s Gate 3 hardly even constitutes as dnd 5e. It pains me that someone would say dnd 5e “takes the cake” when it comes to in depth classes and multi classing.
Have you ever played pf2e? Fabula Ultima?
Nope, but like I said, other folks are better traveled than I am. Still, I have sampled lots of RPG systems, and 5e’s is the best I’ve come across. I’ve played the Pathfinder 1 system via Kingmaker, and I’ve played both Pillars of Eternity games, which share a lot of the same DNA, and I’d for sure take 5e’s multiclassing over what those offer. Yes, BG3 is 5e. Yes, it changes some things, but so, so much of it is intact, including multiclassing. It’s one of the things I miss most as I’m playing through the first Solasta.
Respectfully I will disagree about bg3 keeping much intact. It is very different than the tabletop game.
Respectfully disagreeing as well, but I play the tabletop game, too.
I do too if that wasn’t clear from my comments.
You should try out the other games I mentioned. Fabula in particular if you like JRPGs
Not an expert on RPG but I liked Bravely Default a lot in that regard because rather than multi class you kinda collected classes and switching them on the go made the gameplay so much more variety.
Guild wars 1. Its a skillbar mmorpg, 1 time purchase for $10. Its back in active development by a small team.
You get a primary profession like warrior and a secondary one like ranger, monk that can be swapped at any outpost. This allows you to get access to a much wider array of skils to build for the situation.
Each profession has a primary stat so you dont have warrior/monks out healing monks because they dont have the devine favour stat.
But there is still a ton of build diversity and role diversity.
I’m playing a Paragon/warrior so I run a lot of DPS support shouts from the paragon class and weapon focused skills from the warrior class as well.
I really enjoyed the previous big RPGs by larian, Divinity Original sin 1/2.
Apart from the gameplay just being fantastic, it has a very open class system where you put points into different abilities and you can freely mix and match whatever you want.
It also puts a huge emphasis on environmental hazards and how they interact, which makes the combat feel very novel.
