Has anyone encountered someone from a country that has had socialist in the past falling for propaganda.
I have a couple friends who know I’m a ML and its difficult to try to discuss communism around them because of how they fall for the anti red propaganda.
I can discuss the issues with them but they often dismiss everything at themselves being an authority on the subject as I do not live in a post socialist society. I ususally write them off as impossible to enter reasonable discussions with and also I focus mostly on the people within my region to agitate. But occasionally they’re a mutual friend or are in the vicinity of the discussion and return to the same old things.
Unnecessary but relevant story:
There was even an incident with a German I met at a party. I talked for a bit about normal stuff and mentioned how hard living was for me in my country because of capitalism and he shut me down not wanting to talk about politics which ofc I respect its a party. But later when I was discussing the feminist progress in socialist countries have accomplished and their impact on our country and culture with a professor I was totally chattin up(she wrote her final thesis on a similar matter), they came over and interrupted the conversation with their own opinions on the matter. Mostly referring to the history in Berlin of which ofc they hands personally experienced. Thankfully this didnt ruin the vibe and us socialists got social lmao.
But Its something I have encountered repeatedly and I’m not sure how to approach it. Especially as someone from a imperial country.
社会主義採用してた国の人とプロパガンダ信じるのがありますか？ 少し友達に僕はMLだを知ってます。プロパガンダひっかかるので、辺で共産主義について話は難しです。
あの人とよく話せますけど、よく僕の意見は無視されますよ。あの人にとって、あの人は共産主義について権威振舞いますよ。あの人とちゃんと話無理と思いますて, 同国人とに焦点変わります。しかし、よくあの人辺がいますて、よく僕の話に遮ります。どうしようかな
[Edit: lmao I misclicked or something into the wrong community ty for the replies tho]
Your last paragraphs again prove my point of China and Vietnam progressing after having liberalised their economies. Of course, they didn’t become US or Singapore. But they had to let go of socialist doctrines.
As for tsarist control, then I have no knowledge of that matter. Notice, how didn’t address Afghanistan and also the invasion of Azerbaijan. You claim that they took national liberation seriously. You mean by attacking the religious institutions of the people they imposed their rule upon? Also, you don’t seem to address the Russification policy of Stalin. The deportation of ethnic minorities like Tatars. Are you serious yourself?
As for China’s suppression of Uyghurs (and Muslims and Christians in general), then there are well known evidences for that. The ban on niqab, entry to places of worship for minors and no religious education is the tip of the iceberg. The practice of Islaam and Uyghur culture, in particular, have been reduced to mere performance for consumption by the Chinese. The Uyghur language is being slowly replaced. CCP handlers have been caught on camera monitoring “problematic” behaviour of Muslims.
Look, I know, that defeat at the hands of the Muslims and Liberals at the end of 1980s traumatised the socialists for generations. However, you don’t deal with trauma by stubbornly refusing to accept the truth. You heal yourself by looking inward and realising that you are a loser.
Wrong. Both the PRC and Vietnam were rapidly developing prior to increasing marketization, and socialism was not abandoned, but strengthened. Marketization of secondary industries stableized growth, it did not create growth:
Secondly, the soviets stopped Russification from the Tsar. Stalin did not implement Russification, it was stopped by Lenin and Stalin protected that. Ethnic minorities were protected. As for Afghanistan, the legitimate government requested aid from the soviets, the soviets did not invade.
As for the protection of ethnic minorities in Xinjiang, none of what you said is true. Mandarin, for example, is taught while Uyghur language and culture is protected. You are sidestepping the mountain of resources provided to you to double down. Socialism is rising, and was not defeated. The USSR falling was a tragedy, but the PRC is the largest economy in the world by PPP and is driving the world forward, thanks to their socialist system.
Russification of ethnic minorities was done by the Soviets - unofficially. And you comfortably ignored the case of Azerbaijan and their suppression of religious activities of Muslims in Turkic Central Asia. Not to mention massacres in Afghanistan - a religious society.
As for CCP, then it has been documented that they kill and oppress Muslims in Uyghuristan. I have interacted with Uyghurs. I will trust them more than lying socialists.
The name Xinjiang - meaning new land - itself should ring some bells.
There was no Russification of ethnic minorities in the Soviet Union. A broader soviet identity was propped up alongside a careful consideration for preserving national identity. The Soviets did try to minimize religion, although they still allowed religious freedom, they tried to promote atheism as it is backed by a dialectical materialist understanding of the world as well as modern science. This, however, often backfired as trying to combat religion as a means to help support feudalism often ended up creating bigger backlash, so this was wound back. Either way, the soviets were invited into Afghanistan by the legitimate government.
As for Xinjiang, no, Uyghur peoples are not being murdered by the state. Rather than anecdotes that may not even exist (it’s only your word, after all), I recommend Xinjiang: A Report and Resource Compilation. Reality does not stack up to your narrative, nor your hermeneutics of suspicion towards the naming of Xinjiang.
Again, I see you backtracking when actually contested.
I see your language somewhat resembles the Western imperialists and Zionists when China is mentioned.
Xinjiang means ‘new land’ - a name not used for Dogu Turkestan until the 19th century.
Nope, the Soviets were invited into Afghanistan by the Democratic Republic of Afghanistan, the legitimate government at the time, to fight the CIA-backed factions. As for Xinjiang, no, Uyghurs are not being killed nor is Uyghur culture being erased. You can watch videos disproving your claims very easily online.
CIA backed factions doesn’t mean they had no right to fight the oppressive atheists. Their claims as Muslims and those of the wider Islamic world is what gives a government legitimacy. Not some Europeanised atheists.
I see you don’t touch the issue of Azerbaijan.
And as for Uyghurs, China’s erasure of their culture happens very sinister way and they always keep tokens to fool fellow atheists. Kind of like how US racists had people like Candace Owens and the likes.
The atheists were not “oppressive,” and had strong support. As for Azerbaijan, 69% of people over 35 said life was better in the USSR, I didn’t think it was a point worth addressing. As for Xinjiang, Uyghur culture is not being erased, and is in fact celebrated. This is extraordinarily easy to find online.
Your comment really exposes you. You think that a supposed survey from a Russia-based organisation means anything. Have you interacted Azerbaijanis? They have been living pretty good lives as an independent nation with a much better economy. Poland is another case of improved economy.
Now imagine this, if the conditions in Venezuela improve in the future and if US were to occupy Cuba and improve the life conditions there, would you justify US intervention? Why do your language sound like Zionists and Western imperialists when it comes to socialist expansionism.
Not a single mosque in Uyghuristan has Taraweeh, Eid or Itikaaf during Ramadan. Only randomly people dancing in front of the camera. Since when did mosques become a place for dancing!!