- cross-posted to:
- linux_gaming@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- linux_gaming@lemmy.world
Free Windows 10 support ended for most people this past month, and the trend line of Linux usage has been quite clear leading up to this, as people prepared for the inevitable. An increase in Linux usage is also correlated to a drop in Chinese players, which did happen this month a little bit, but Linux usage is also trending up when filtering for English only. It’s worth noting that for all the official support Macs ever saw in gaming, they never represented anything better than about 5% of the market.
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I’m dual booting with Windows because of a project I’m finishing that would be difficult to move OS, but Cachy is now my gaming OS. It’s nice to move away from the “forced” behavior from Windows.
Tangentially, a few UI decisions felt locked-in on Ubuntu and Mint too; or at least I couldn’t find an easy way to change them. I’m still a little annoyed my scroll wheel changes form options but it’s a minor thing.
The year of Linux!
SteamOS Holo 64 bit - 27.18% (-0.47%)
Arch Linux 64 bit - 10.32% (-0.66%)
Linux Mint 22.2 64 bit - 6.65% (+6.65%)
CachyOS 64 bit - 6.01% (+1.32%)
Ubuntu Core 22 64 bit - 4.55% (+0.55%)
Freedesktop SDK 25.08 (Flatpak runtime) 64
bit - 4.29% (+4.29%)
Bazzite 64 bit - 4.24% (+4.24%)
Ubuntu 24.04.3 LTS 64 bit - 3.70% (+3.70%)
Linux Mint 22.1 64 bit - 2.56% (-5.65%)
EndeavourOS Linux 64 bit - 2.32% (-0.08%)
Freedesktop SDK 24.08 (Flatpak runtime) 64
bit - 2.31% (-3.98%)
Fedora Linux 42 (KDE Plasma Desktop Edition)
64 bit - 2.12% (+0.19%)
Manjaro Linux 64 bit - 2.04% (-0.31%)
Pop!_OS 22.04 LTS 64 bit - 1.93% (-0.04%)
Fedora Linux 42 (Workstation Edition) 64 bit - 1.75% (-0.43%)
Other - 18.04% (-4.28%)
I ws hoping r6 could be accessible but no. Still that friggin battleeye bullshit
BattlEye supports Linux, Ubisoft doesn’t.
So it’s not the anti cheat? Everyone always says anticheat whenever it’s brought up.
I’m guessing that once we get to 5% excluding console-like systems like Steam Deck, we’ll see it start to explode. That didn’t happen for macOS, probably because of the cost of the hardware, whereas Linux can be installed on whatever you have.
Also, Apple don’t seem to have an appetite for supporting gaming on macOS, beyond a few big name titles announced once a year to reig ite interest.
I wonder if Valve will ever release an official desktop version of SteamOS? I think Linux adoption would really increase fast if there was a gaming focused Linux desktop distribution with the support of an established company. But does Valve want that? A full featured operating system is a lot to maintain and provide support for.
Is that really needed?
I think what could really drive adoption is if computers with Linux pre-installed was more easily accessible. Just boot the computer, choose which DE you want to install and then it’s done. It doesn’t need to be SteamOS. Just any good distro will do.
Just boot the computer, choose which DE you want to install
Yeah, that’s not at all accessible to the average consumer; they don’t know what a “DE” even is, much less why they should choose any over any other.
Very, very few people want to deal with something other than a ‘just works’ situation.
They don’t need to, just give them 3 screenshots and ask which they want. Show KDE, GNOME, and whatever the distro wants as the third. Maybe include some bullet points below each explaining what they are (pick one from the last two):
- KDE - familiar, extensible
- GNOME - modern, minimalist
- Cinnamon/Budgie/MATE - something in the middle
- XFCE/LXQT - super lightweight for older systems
Maybe select one by default that the OEM likes, but showing the option helps nudge them toward the idea that this is a flexible system.
I agree with the other guy, that’s too much choice. People don’t want to deal with it.
Three options is too many? If one is already selected, you can just click through without thinking. Windows already does that stupid “setting up your PC” crap, and this would be far faster.
Yes.
And they need to sort out the defaults to something good. 99% of basic users won’t/can’t change them.
Sure. If you have all three options be properly configured, it shouldn’t matter too much which you pick. The point is to make it apparent that you can change stuff, if you want.
Bazzite offers KDE or GNOME, and in the menu mentions KDE is what is used in SteamOS.
I installed Bazzite on my HTPC recently. It was the worst install process I’ve seen in over ten years of using Linux. I shall enumerate the problems I had:
- The image is weirdly large, it’s like 9GB in size. It takes awhile to download and a weirdly long time to write to a USB stick.
- Once written, you boot the image, and GRUB has the options to Install Bazzite or Test Media And Install Bazzite. By default, Test Media is selected. It always fails this test.
- If you use the typical non-live environment image, the scaling is tiny on a 4k monitor, and there’s no way to adjust this.
- If you use the live environment image (in beta at time of writing), it might just lock up. I had that happen twice just while clicking through the Anaconda installer.
- The Anaconda installer, which I think they inherited from Fedora, was I think designed by one of the contrarian idiots who work for Gnome. There’s a DONE button up in the far upper left hand corner of the screen that sometimes acts as a back button, sometimes acts as a forward button. You have to move the mouse from the top corner of the screen to the center of the screen a lot, for no reason. The top-left corner of the screen is a dumb place to put a DONE button because most languages read top to bottom, left to right, the DONE button is where a START button should go.
- There isn’t a simple way to tell it “put / on this drive, put /home on that drive.” There’s an automatic installer which will do god knows what…fail, most likely. There’s a “custom” partition dialog which I couldn’t make heads or tails of, and then there’s a “custom advanced” one that lets you set the size and position of each partition to the byte. Doing it this way apparently REQUIRES you to not only set up a /boot/efi partition, but also a /boot partition separate from /root.
- If you’re in the habit of putting /, you know, operating system and software, on one drive, and /home on another drive, you have to learn from osmosis that part of Bazzite’s immutableness means that there is no /home, there’s a /var/home symlinked to /home.
And if it doesn’t randomly lock up, you’ve got Bazzite installed!
Bazzite markets itself as a newbie friendly Linux. They’ve got that configurator on their website that gives you a little Cosmo quiz about what system you have, what desktop you want etc. which is good! That is good user friendly design. But the actual software you get rattles like a Chrysler. How many noobs are going to bounce right off that?
Bazzite is just a shit option vs using cachy. It’s the same goal and work load target. And bazzite manages to just be worse in every respect.
Having played with it for a little while now that I’ve got it installed…I think it’s alright for a mostly or entirely gaming machine. I wouldn’t want to use it, or any immutable distro, as my main computer.
I’ve attempted to stay out of the trendy distro of the month club, remember Garuda? Remember Peppermint? Remember Endeavour?
That’s really too bad. I’ve heard great things about Bazzite, and it’s what I recommend when someone wants SteamOS.
That said, that’s a bit different from what I’m talking about. I’m suggesting OEMs ship a pre-installed Linux desktop, and users are presented an option on setup about which DE to use. So all that would change is enabling one and not the others, but they’d always be present. After install, you could switch between them if desired without messing with the package manager.
I personally use openSUSE (leap on server, tumbleweed on desktop, Aeon Desktop on laptop), and their installer is solid, but I haven’t tried it on a 4k monitor (worked fine on 1440p). Unfortunately, I don’t recommend my distro of choice because it’s not popular enough to have a good newb support network, whereas that’s basically Bazzite’s core demographic.
Stop recommending bazzite, just r commend cachy.
It has a steam deck iso. It’s based on the same thing steamos is built on.
Bazzite is literally the worse option and more likely to lead to problems.
I don’t recommend Arch forks as a rule, unless it has fantastic support from the maintainers (e.g. SteamOS curates updates). It’s going to by break eventually, and it’s going to require manual intervention (probably minimal), and users will get mad. Maybe it’ll be fine for 6 months or a year, but it will break eventually.
That’s much less likely with something built on Ubuntu, Debian, Fedora, or OpenSUSE. Those all have solid testing and upgrade rules, unlike Arch, which is basically “works on my machine.” I used Arch for years until I got tired of the random breakage, and now I’m on Tumbleweed which has far less breakage and stays reasonably close to Arch package versions.
My first recommendation is either Linux Mint (I prefer Debian edition) or Fedora, because those have good new user experiences and aren’t super opinionated like Ubuntu.
You forgot the part where the installer fails just right before the end. Every time.
Had this occuring on both my laptop and someone else’s that I was trying to install Bazzite to, which resulted in installing Fedora on their laptop instead (and back to EndeavourOS on my end), and even Fedora’s new installer errored out too. Thankfully the OS was working though.
I am suspecting your 6th point for that one, which even if it wasn’t I consider it a colossal failure on their part because it is NOT TELEGRAPHED AT ALL. I shouldn’t have to stumble upon random forum posts to learn about it, come on.
I tried to go with Bazzite on my wife’s old PC. Fuck knows what happened, but I could not get it to recognise that I’d downloaded the image with the Nvidia drivers built in.
Ended up giving up and rolling Kubuntu. I know Kubuntu and like it. And it works beautifully. Back in the world of RDR2 now, and loving it.
I had one fail fairly early, giving me a cryptic message because apparently it couldn’t cope with how I’d set up the partitioning.
I’ve had a Linux Mint install fail because it couldn’t cope with a BIOS setting, the error message gave a plain English explanation “it’s probably the XMBT (or whatever acronym) setting in the BIOS, see this page on the Ubuntu wiki for details:” and it gave a hyperlink, because the installer runs in a live environment, it had a copy of Firefox ready to go, AND it gave a QR code so you could easily open that link on a mobile device. THAT’S how it’s done.
EndeavourOS has that kind of menu during the install process. A few screenshots and a brief explanation of each option.
I thought it was nice. It’s something I want to see more with other distros. The DE is what most people will notice about the OS either way.
Yeah, that is nice. I won’t recommend EndeavorOS or any other Arch installer/derivative for other reasons (IMO, every Arch user should do the official install process once or twice to have a better shot at fixing stuff later), but I do like that UX.
I wish more distros did it. My distro (openSUSE) does something similar, but I also don’t recommend it because the community isn’t all that good for new users IMO.
Your like 5+ years out of date with your preconceptions of arch.
Arch at this point is breaks less from updates than most other options if your using a prebuild like endeavour or cachy.
Fuck even the aur breaks shit less than windows breaks which is literally the bar for stability for your avg normies.
That tracks since I left Arch about 5 years ago, maybe a little longer, and I used it for at least 5 years.
I used it through the /usr merge which broke nearly everything, and for a few years of stability afterward. But even when it was super stable, there were still random issues a couple times each year. It wasn’t anything big (I’ve been a Linux user for 15 years or so), but it did require knowing what to do to fix it (usually documented clearly on the Arch homepage). This was especially true for Nvidia updates. After switching to openSUSE Tumbleweed, most of those went away, and even the Nvidia breakage seemed less frequent, and if something broke, I could easily
snapper rollbackand wait for a fix, whereas on Arch I had to fix things because going back wasn’t an option (I guess you could configure rollbacks if you had that foresight).I just took a look, and it looks like manual intervention is still a thing. For example, the June 21 Linux firmware change required manual intervention. There were others over the last year, depending on the packages you use or your configuration.
That’s totally fine for Linux vets, but new users will have issues eventually. In don’t even recommend my distro, which solves most of those issues, because new user support isn’t there. The main reason I left was because I wanted to switch to btrfs (for snapshot rollbacks), and Tumbleweed had that OOTB so I gave it a shot.
I think the “friendly” distros like Linux Mint with built-in driver detection/management and pretty broad package repositories (surfaced as an “App Store”) are probably to the point where many normal people could use them, without significantly more technical chops than Windows. Particularly as a gaming rig where you basically just need Firefox, LibreOffice and Steam.
Some companies sell Linux prebuilts, like System76, but that’s pretty niche for the average person to even know to search for.
Now, if stores like Best Buy had a section for Linux prebuilts, that would reach a lot of people.
Ooh, Lenovo is a much bigger deal.
I was really surprised at the price difference. Win11 Home adds $140 to the laptop cost? I would’ve expected $100, but damn.
And Win11 Pro is $200 over Linux lol
Who else has an incentive to do so other than Valve? Even when you buy a pre-built with Windows today, those things are subsidized by bloatware that’s already installed on the machine.
A brand name that people trust is a huge deal in marketing
The issue with that is, people have no idea what these “choice” even mean. SteamOS is SteamOS, Windows 11 is Windows 11, MacOS is MacOS, but Linux is a big list. If pushing adoption is the key purpose, the manufacturer need to pick one that they believe is reliable and in active development. Just one. All these editions will very likely cause choice paralysis, which lead to people deem it as “too complicated”.
Also Valve will not likely go that path again.
I’d guess Valve wants whatever makes more games work on Linux so that their Steam Deck works better and is more compatible.
And that means the most important thing is Linux desktop adoption by game developers so they make more native games. So somewhat ironically, I don’t think SteamOS would be as high a priority as other distributions, since it focuses on players instead of developers.
Ironically, some games run better on the Steam Deck through Proton rather than the native Linux version.
A lot of games received their ports during the Steam Machine era, used outdated technologies like DirectX to OpenGL translation, and never got updated, so it’s not surprising unfortunately.
I can attest that SteamOS does work on my rigs that are AMD gpu/cpu. It actually works great. I haven’t had one single issue. But I don’t do multiplayer games either.
Bazzite already fills this niche. It just doesn’t have the Steam name on it.
I spent the last two days building a machine from old parts and installing Linux Mint. It’s my first time using Linux and I am really surprised at how lovely it is. I am still learning, but I can easily see it replacing my home gaming PC. I have yet to find something I can’t get to work.
Fortnite.
Anything with anticheat unfortunately.
But I’m happily on Linux for daily and gaming. Welcome to the club
All anticheats are not made equal, and some are functional under Linux.
Plenty of anti-cheats work on Linux, and the ones that don’t are probably borderline malware anyways, so it’s really a win-win
I play Fortnite with my kids, but the only way is using that Xbox streaming service in the browser.
I’m kinda in the same boat. I have an old gaming laptop that just barley didn’t make the win11 arbitrary cut. Not because it was below spec, it was way above. Just because it was too “old”. I installed Bazzite. But I do have a top tier premium gaming PC I built recently that’s still on Win11 with Dualboot with Bazzite.
Bazzite is great, but it still has the failure(maybe it’s not failure to you and me, but the average gamer) is that most stuff isn’t just, download .exe, run that .exe there are loops and frameworks that need to be installed through command lines. The average user will give up there really quickly.
Haven’t used bazzite, but there is an App Store you can get all of the apps anyone would need.
No longer do we live in the days of visiting a vendors website to download their executables. They are conveniently packaged for us in the App Store (package manager).
Haven’t used bazzite, but there is an App Store you can get all of the apps anyone would need.
Its one of the quirks of a lot of the atomic distros. Because they are specifically built around the idea of having a specific set of packages at a specific range of versions for every rev of the distro itself… adding more packages is kind of a clusterfuck.
For flatpaks (and I think appimages too?), it is seamless. For anything else you are googling the commands to add packages as “layers” and so forth
And, to be fair to Bazzite (which I use for my HTPC and love it on there), I have had zero issues with actual gaming. Steam out of the box and Heroic is one flatpak away. But holy shit was adding
iperf3to test some network infrastructure tweaks a Thing.Its why I personally recommend to friends to just raw dog Fedora rather than use one of the atomic distros. Atomic distros make a lot of sense for deployed machines but for anything someone is going to use as “their” computer? Just learn to not type
sudobefore every command you run… and maybe get a jetkvm so your tech savvy friend can fix your computer after an nvidia driver update.Its why I personally recommend to friends to just raw dog Fedora
Probably sound advice if they are in (presumably) the 0.01% of users (like you) that need other utilities that are hard to get.
If they aren’t, then Bazzite, etc would be perfect for them (as you said, zero issues with gaming/more common uses).
Bazzite is great, but it still has the failure(maybe it’s not failure to you and me, but the average gamer) is that most stuff isn’t just, download .exe, run that .exe there are loops and frameworks that need to be installed through command line
Strong disagree on “most”
For the vast majority of users? Everything they need is in Steam and MAYBE Heroic, which is the same as on Windows.
In terms of non-gaming? I… have very strong Thoughts on atomic distros and the hoops Bazzite et al make you jump through with regard to layering and the like, but they are in Discover and the like. So “app store” experience.
I personally don’t think Bazzite is a good desktop OS (but I love it for my HTPC). But any of the user friendly distros (e.g. Fedora, Mint, and Ubuntu) should be almost zero command line usage unless you have a reason to use it.
Bazzite is a vehicle for Steam. If your basis for using it isn’t ‘gaming through Steam’, you’re already intentionally venturing into un-average lands.
Can I play pirated games on Linux?
Outside of delisted games, I always encourage people not to, but yes.
I assume, it is often more easy to get games running without (or removed) drm, as drm may be the one tricky thing that is hard to get working with wine 🤔
Why wouldn’t you?
Malware is a decent reason. You may get the game, but you’ll likely get more along with it.
Now movies on the other hand…
I was always under the assumption that I cannot run Windows games on Linux, and that in order for games to work on Linux they need to be compiled for Linux and not windows.
All the pirated games are windows games. I haven’t seen pirated games for Linux specifically.
So do I understand correctly that I can download pirated games for windows and run them on Linux?
Using a program like wine, yes. Though it’ll depend to what level is successful.
And I assume running wine adds overhead and makes games run slower?
So I can only run pirated games by going through extra hoops and even then the level of success is varying?
See that’s what’s been preventing me from switching to linux for years and years and it seems this hasn’t changed really :(
I support indie devs and buy their games, but most often I can’t afford AAA games or simply don’t want to support greedy devs ruining the gaming industry, so I pirate them.
I mean really it’s like one more step and it’s pretty much just as easy as running a game on Windows I mean I don’t know what to tell you other than dual boot install or grab a laptop install or something else so you can just throw an instance on and give it a try you might be surprised
I’ve tried playing Steam games, but my hard drives are all NTFS and the Linux (Mint) partition is exFat, and it seems like they don’t play nicely together. Since i don’t want to move all my steam games to an exFat partition, I’m holding off on switching. But until I get around to overhauling my storage and go single drive, I’m gonna stick with Windows using as many FOSS apps as possible.
Linux on exfat?! Do you mean ext4?
When I switched over my home desktop to Mint, it was a very short time before I looked at Windows and said “I’m too old for this shit.” I mean, the reason I am a Mint fan in the first place is that I am a FOSS loving nerd but with a family and pets and hobbies and a career and a middle aged energy level. The decades I’ve spent fixing Windows based PCs is enough for a lifetime, thx.
I say consolidate old files you want to keep. Shuffle them between drives as necessary to be able to format everything. Go all ext4 on the drives you already have. (once you’re ready)
This is the way.
They can play nicely, it just requires some work. The NTFS-3G driver can map Windows users to Linux users and translate the permissions so that it basically Just Works™️ under both operating systems.
Here’s some documentation. There are also tools you can use under both Windows and Linux to generate UserMapping files. I wish I could help more, but I did this a couple years ago and have forgotten the details since then
It causes a bunch of frequent issues though. I strongly encourage users to select exFAT rather than NTFS for sharing a drive between Windows and Linux.
I feel you. I have my old PC with quiet an “ancient” chipset. Installed an NVMe and installed Linux on it… Just to find out that my AHCI controller isn’t supported by it with all my Windows hard drives. It’s either booting that NVMe with the Linux one or booting the deprecated Windows ones from BIOS. 12-13 years of reliable hardware… :/ Hope there is a kernel patch supporting it again
Not directly relevant but I just discovered CachyOS for my AYN Loki and it’s pretty fuckin awesome. I hope we retain some non-immutable options for those of us who want to heavily customize our experiences with these devices. It was hard to find something I could just run syncthing and some standalone emulators on. I don’t want valve and libretro in complete control of what I do and do not do on my handheld linux or not - and it could very easily go that way with the popularity of immutable distros. Maybe I’m just paranoid. I dont know.
I just installed cachyOS last week, and quite like it. Im experienced with Debian and rpm based OSes but haven’t used Arch before, but so far this OS has made it pretty straight forward.
Immutable distros will become a massive fucking headache. Just watch
Out of curiosity why?
It seems like the perfect thing for BFUs…
They already are. So many user complaints on popular packages have nothing to do with a bug on the package, but are caused by the moronic permissions systems used by Flatpaks and similar.
shoutout to WUBI for making factorio and space age native on linux.
Silksong is also native on Linux
ngl the hk and silksong native ports were pretty crap on my machine (but proton + Windows version worked perfectly)
It’s sad in a way but I kinda feel like proton is going to near wipe out the very few Linux native ports we get. It’s so much easier and more stable than trying to build and package for Linux.
Yeah, even more casual games like Balatro are proof of that, despite how easily you can port a game of that nature otherwise, people will choose to use proton because it’s still able to sync with their progress and symlinking is too inconvenient to consider unless you’re running like 2gb ram or something.
I’m doing my part!
I joined that group today, but it wasn’t necessarily this support thing. I hated Windows update most of the time anyway. Mostly I just needed to buy a new SSD so I could dual boot, which will allow me to transition at my own pace while getting comfortable. I bought a cheap 500gb Saturday.
The other issue is my version of decision paralysis on choosing a distro, which generally is paralysis up until I suddenly just bite the bullet. I went with Nobara since it looked easiest to support my hardware and get into my games quickly.
So far I’ve gotten FFXIV, Warframe, and Enshouded running the way I want, and am slowly downloading my other current games. I have to keep a 200mpbs download limit because I’m working too. I also wiped one of my 2tb drives that mostly had games I was planning to play soon or just started playing to make it exFAT. I’ll probably eventually convert the others but may need to buy another 2tb drive for transfers if needed.
Yeah, filesystem is a slow battle of forfeiture. Everyone wants to say “I’ll just use FAT, or NTFS, because both Windows and Linux support them!” And then it inevitably gives them performance issues among other problems.
I still use either for the drives where both of my dual boot OS’s need to access them, but I recognize it’s not a good place for games (I have some old, light ones that I’m not worried about accessing on NTFS, but big ones like Helldivers are out). It may even be a good excuse to learn more detailed partitioning so you can slowly shrink/eliminate what’s still using the two compatibility formats.
Distro choice is a tricky problem. I say that as someone that kinda settled on one; my own experience has not always matched others. But I will admit, it’s nice to stay on an interface not too far from Windows’ taskbar.
It can be a slow transition, but I did the same. I had equal space for Windows and Linux in 2017, predating the Proton years. When I built a machine in 2021, I saw how much I was using each OS, and it ended up being 1.5TB Linux and 500GB Windows. Whenever I build my next PC, I’m quite confident I won’t have any reason to use Windows at all, seeing as I haven’t even booted that partition in about a year. If there is some odd use case, like a firmware update utility for a peripheral that requires Windows or something, I’ll just install Windows briefly on a cheap mini PC I’ve got and then set it back to Bazzite when I’m done.
Hopefully we can surpass 5% by the end of the decade :D
I switched this year, but the laptop I switched with was on repair during the survey so I probably wasn’t counted this time :(
5% at the end of the decade is quite a pessimistic take 😉
Looking at the graph 1% was crossed mid/late 2021, while 2% was crossed mid 2024, so almost 3 years later. Now 3% is crossed a little more than a year later. Next year we would be likely to have crossed 4% and 5% should be no later than 2027, even if it doesn’t speed up much further.
