I’m from Korea, and we impeached our president last year, mostly because he declared martial law, but he was also a terrible president, and no one really liked him being there, even his own party.

Why can’t the U.S do the same, if Donald Trump is so bad? Why are some Americans even supporting him?

  • idontpeoplegood@lemmygrad.ml
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    2 months ago

    Because impeachment is not a mechanic made to protect the people, it’s a way for the ruling class to get rid of an official that has become a problem to them in one way or another.

  • INHALE_VEGETABLES@aussie.zone
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    2 months ago

    His party members either love him, is too terrified to say otherwise, or is just milking the cow - and they make up the majority of government.

    USA is COOKED, sorry to say.

  • TheReanuKeeves@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    Because America is a completely corrupt society hiding behind the facade of a first world country. It’s an example of how capitalism rewards the shittiest people who have no empathy for others unless they can benefit from them.

    • null_dot@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      2 months ago

      Pretty much this.

      The short answer to OPs question is: he still has support from republicans, oligarchs, and voters.

      The reasons are complex but I think there are several.

      Firstly no compulsory voting. Honestly the US could barely be called a “democracy” before the current shit show.

      Also the “both sides” narrative perpetuated even by those on the left, to their own detriment. The left literally protesting against their own side.

      America’s history of violence, racism.

      Late stage capitalism - people are desperate and will follow along with populist policies even if they are lies.

      Checks and balances keeping everything just a tiny sliver to the sane side of abject chaos. Like the tariffs in April - Trump rode right up to the edge but chickened out. If he hadn’t he would’ve lost control after the global financial economy collapsed.

      Religion. Not sure what the situation is in Korea but it can’t be as bad as the US. Christianity in the US is just a salve to allow assholes to justify their shit behavior.

      I could go on.

  • RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    Because it doesn’t work anymore, especially with the Republicans in charge. They know that if trump goes they’ll be held to account, too, so better to keep the PoS in office so they don’t have to deal with any fallout. They’d have to follow through with removal from office. Impeachment has become nothing more than wagging a finger and a furrowed brow

  • darthelmet@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    So this is necessarily going to oversimplify things because it’s a comment on a website. I invite anyone who wants to add more insights or clarifications to do so:

    So lets start with the issue of how this would happen: The only ways to remove US president from are political, not legal. We can either vote them out, or impeach them. Impeachment is not a legal proceeding held in courts, it’s a process that is kicked off by a vote in the House of Representatives and finished with a vote in the Senate. So whether or not a president can be impeached almost entirely depends on the political makeup of the legislature. Right now the Republicans have a majority, so unless they all have a stroke tomorrow and wake up with a conscience, such a vote will not pass any time soon.

    So now we move on to the question of why our politics is this way. On a very fundamental level, the US isn’t a real democracy. I’ll try to highlight the factors I think are most relevant:

    1. We have a very powerful capitalist class that is able to use its immense wealth to deeply influence politics. While this has always been the case to some degree or another, (fluctuating with some significant historical events) the Citizens United https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._FEC Supreme Court decision essentially codified the right of these capitalists to spend unlimited amounts of money to influence politics. The result of this is that the vast majority of our politicians in significant positions support capitalists, as they likely wouldn’t be there without their assistance. This unites them in various matters having to do with benefiting the capitalist class, either directly through low taxes, lax regulations, etc, or indirectly through supporting the capacity for the state to engage in violence, as this violence is necessary to both maintain their power against the working class as well as go around the world stealing shit from everyone else. Even if Democrats and Republicans disagree on a broad range of issues, they will generally be united in matters that secure their power and the power of their donors. So even if they dislike some of what Trump does, or at least the optics of how he’s doing it, they’re not going to push back too hard because some of the stuff he is doing is stuff they value anyway.

    2. US elections are structurally designed in a way that limits people’s choices and overall influence on the outcomes. First Past the Post voting, a voting system in which the winner is merely the person who got the most votes, even if they aren’t the one which a majority of people want. In a race between 3 candidates, a, b, and c, a gets 34%, b gets 33%, and c gets 33%, a wins even though he not only barely has more votes than the other candidates individually, but also that the other candidates are collectively more popular than him. More people DIDN’T want him than did, but he still wins. This means that lets say candidates b and c are politically closer to each other than they are to a, even if they disagree on some stuff, then the result of both of them running and allowing a to win is that now neither of them get a candidate who is even close to what they want. This means that in a system like this, a 3rd party ALWAYS acts as a spoiler. This effectively pushes 3rd parties out of serious competition for the race. Fewer parties = fewer choices = less likely that there is a candidate who you will like to vote for = less representation in government. And because people are unlikely to vote 3rd party for the above reason, this makes those voters essentially captive to the other party, because if they don’t vote for them, they will get the worse option. Meaning that party has even less incentive to try to attract these voters by listening to their interests.

    3. The other structural issue is gerrymandering. Elections are based on districts and those district boundaries are decided by politicians. So the same people who can benefit from how the districts are set up are the same people who get to actually do the drawing. There are all sorts of ways to gerrymander https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerrymandering to get a favorable result for your party. So not only does this allow parties to cheat, it effectively allows politicians to pick their constituents, further freeing them of the competitive need to be responsive to their needs.

    4. Through the use of the aforementioned state power and tons of propaganda, any semblance of a labor movement has been crushed. The US does not have a class which is politically united by common material interests. Without this uniting force and without the solidarity that comes from directly working with others, the US has effectively been able to divide the working class along other lines. Racial, cultural, etc. It’s also pretty easy to make them irrationally fear each other because if you never actually meet with someone, you’re more likely to believe what others tell you about them. Between the war on drugs and war on terror, the government spent over a decade making people afraid of foreigners and various other minority groups.

    The result of all of this is that the US does not have any real left flank. It has no significant political force that’s primary concern is the welfare of everyone. Instead we have the stupid loud Nazis and the college educated closet Nazis who wear nice suits and talk good. In the past decade or so as the illusion of shared prosperity deteriorated, it’s become more clear to more people how broken things are and they are disappointed in the politicians who made it that way and/or fail to adequately and honestly commit to addressing these issues in the future. Neither party will address these issues for the aforementioned reasons, so now we are seeing essentially a marketing battle. Republicans are really charismatic towards people who align with them culturally and know how to rile them up to engage in politics. Democrats are… boring. They are empty suits. They look like your image of the stereotypical politician. Perhaps with the exception of Obama, who was a uniquely charismatic figure in politics in this period of history even if he wasn’t much less corporate than any other politician. So 2016 rolls around, people are discontent after a disappointing 8 years of Obama letting them down, and the election was between a TV personality who knew how to get people riled up and an ancient politician who was so out of touch with regular people that she barely seemed human. Nobody was getting excited to go vote for more of the same and she certainly wasn’t going to score any voters off charm. Fast forward to 2020, we end up with Biden after the DNC did everything they could do block out a more likable candidate and I’m reasonably sure that the ONLY reason he won was in reaction to just how terrible Trump’s term was. Then we get 4 more years of empty suit, people get disappointed, and now we’re at 2024. Remember how They put up yet another boring politician nobody trusts or likes. Meanwhile, remember how we spent over a decade making people afraid of foreigners? Well even though both parties are responsible for some combination of those policies and messaging, who is going to be better at capitalizing on that fear and hatred? The boring closet Nazis? Or the really loud, dumb Nazis who play into people’s fear and hatred? So surprise! They pick the loud Nazi over the next empty suit the Democrats ran. But hey, to the politicians and the capitalists they represent, this is still preferable to an actual left wing candidate winning. Keeping people divided and distracted is currently the best way for them to maintain power.

    So now that we have the fascist in power, the people who need to do their job to stand up to him either can’t or won’t. Ask yourself how you can expect a politician to resist one fascist when they are actively supporting another fascist committing a genocide? Are these people who have the political principles or will to be genuinely against state violence, overreach, or violations of human rights? And even if they did, they don’t have the majority needed to do anything about it.

    So yeah, I wouldn’t expect Trump to get impeached any time soon. The soonest it could possibly happen would be after the mid-term elections in 2026, but that’s assuming the Republicans don’t do anything to get in the way of that election. (Also, I don’t actually know, is the Senate up for grabs in the next election? Only about 1/3rd of the seats are in contest each election, so I don’t know if the current makeup is such that the Senate could change hands next election.) I’m not optimistic about this, but who knows?

    • Xaphanos@lemmy.world
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      1 month ago

      Are you a professional writer? If not, you could be. This is thorough and clear. A best-of kind of post.

      • darthelmet@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        Thanks, but I’m currently too depressed and anxious to be a professional anything at the moment unfortunately.

  • DarkFuture@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    American here.

    Because Americans are stupid.

    Well, enough are anyway.

    This is the country that made a convicted felon and adjudicated rapist with one failed presidency under his belt our leader…again.

    We did already impeach him…twice. But now Republicans are in total control (see stupid Americans comment above), so Republicans would have to impeach him this time, but they’re all spineless fascists, so that isn’t happening. In America impeachment is just the first step, then the Senate has to actually remove them. After the first two impeachments the spineless fascist Republicans in the Senate refused to remove him, even though it was at the very end of his first term and gave them the perfect opportunity to permanently rid themselves of him. But again, they are spineless fascists.

    Why do many Americans support him? It’s a combination of stupidity, ignorance, hate, and fear. Humans who don’t receive a proper education or upbringing end up being easily manipulated by those things. That’s the case here in America. Expect it to get a whole lot worse.

  • TomMasz@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    The Founders created the impeachment process without consideration for political parties. They naively assumed Congress would act in accordance with the Constitution and standard jurisprudence with no regard for ideology. While it hasn’t always been this way, there are really only two parties that matter at the Federal level. The House of Representatives, which is responsible for determining whether a trial is appropriate (similar to a Grand Jury), is controlled by Republicans. They won’t even consider holding impeachment hearings, let alone recommend a trial in the Senate. The Senate, also controlled by Republicans, would likely do the same thing they did twice during his first term, which is essentially nothing.

  • Jordan117@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    It’s a two step process: a majority of the House must vote to impeach, then the Senate has a trial where you need a two-thirds majority to convict and remove them from office. House Democrats actually impeached Trump twice in his first term when they had the majority (once for blackmailing Ukraine, and again after the January 6th attack), but Republicans in the Senate blocked conviction.

    Right now, Republicans have the majority in both the House and the Senate, so there’s not even a chance of impeachment, much less conviction.

  • Getitupinyerstuffin'@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    Why can’t the U.S do the same, if Donald Trump is so bad?

    We totally could and would, but the thing is Trump isnt that bad, he does a lot of good things even. The left, liberal side is so vocal and active they drown out everything else, but they are a minority. The silent majority voted for Trump and believe he is good a fine job.

    • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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      2 months ago

      Liberalism is not left-wing. Further, there was no “silent majority,” the MAGA crowd is both the loudest and is a minority. The largest bloc was the non-voter bloc, the DNC and GOP are increasingly unpopular because neither are servants of the people, but instead a tiny number of megacorporations and the billionaires that sit at the top of society.

      He’s doing a terrible job, he’s trying to keep US imperialism going but it’s already crumbling because the global south is kicking the empire out and turning to mutually beneficial relationships, such as with China, and the megacorporations already hollowed out US manufacturing in favor of overseas plunder. The US Empire is a house of cards, and no amount of anyone’s flailing can save it from its own collapse.

    • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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      2 months ago

      Trump doesn’t give a shit about you or America. It’s just a slogan to dupe people as he persues his own personal interests. He’s corrupt, and the rest of the politicians don’t want to get rid of him because they’re just as corrupt and serving the same corporate interests. It’s a big club, and you ain’t in it.

      He might hurt the people you dislike because it doesn’t cost him anything but he’s not going to actually improve your life or anybody else’s.

  • Hanrahan@slrpnk.net
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    2 months ago

    You’d need a majority in Congress and a super majorty in the Senate to be successful. Both houses currently support Trump. He was impeached twice in his first term but not removed because of a lack of a Senate super majority.

    He’s still very popular, many peooke are disappointed bevase he’s not more aggressive.

    An example, reading some comments in the FT about the No Kings protest and many of the comments said Trump should arrest all the protestors for being commie traitors

    US Politics is absurdist theatre for the rest of the world

  • Captain Aggravated@sh.itjust.works
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    2 months ago

    We did. Twice.

    Impeachment is essentially the official accusation. This then has to go to trail in the Senate, and the Senate has never been un-corrupt enough to convict him.

    In the words of Gomez Adams, “Well aren’t you a lady killer?” “Acquitted!”

  • BarrelsBallot@lemmygrad.ml
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    2 months ago

    “If we could just get rid of one guy all would be saved” good one

    You’re in U.S occupied Korea so you should know shit’s fucked beyond just one guy

    What’s improved since you impeached a 3rd president in the last 20 years? A less outwardly corrupt president was elected?