What’s up with this straight up pro-china and pro-russia stuff on Lemmy lately?
It’s not even praising the people of China and Russia, but rather their gov directly.
Obviously the states have problems, and the EU to a lesser degree, but they at least have some human rights.
Is this some kind of organized disinformation campaign?
Your instance is probably one of the few who still federated with lemmygrad and hexbear as you described both these instances to a T. You can either block these instances or create an account with one of the numerous instances that have defederated from these absurd groups.
Got to keep that echo chamber sealed
Funny you say that considering hexbear had themselves sealed off from everyone else for several years.
I have no issue with people holding opposing viewpoints or perspectives, but I do have an issue with people acting as little more than mouthpieces for some authoritarian politicians. I see little difference between them and the MAGA sycophants who talk about the “great” things Donald Trump is doing.
Hexbear didn’t “have themselves sealed off,” r/chapotraphouse was banned for supporting John Brown, and then the sub went off and made chapo.chat, later Hexbear.net, as its own thing. Years later, they worked to integrate with Lemmy, and then the anti-communist instances like Lemmy.world defederated before Hexbear even started federating with them.
The fact that you fail to see a difference between MAGA and communists is more of a self-own than anything. Communists have strong, resolute views based on reading theory and (ideally) organizing in the real world and advocate for liberation of all peoples.
Hexbear didn’t "have themselves sealed off,
the sub went off and made chapo.chat, later Hexbear.net, as its own thing. Years later, they worked to integrate with Lemmy
So they went off and “made their own thing for years” but that doesn’t describe an echo chamber?
Instances didnt defederate from them for being communist. Lemmy.ml is run by communists and we’re obviously interacting now, no? They defederated from these groups because they’re obnoxious and disengenuous. They act like MAGA sycophants cosplaying as communists.
Whilst everyone here is just disagreeing with you on basically all points OP, I have to agree. There have lately been a lot more weird memmes, often factualy inaccurate and providing no real argument, that support or defend the Chinese, Russian or North Korean government. I do not in any way agree with the sentiments of these memes* but if people actually hold those opinions their free to discuss it, but I would wish that they didn’t do it in the form of bad memes in the general use communities, but maybe instead in one of their own, as stuff generally works on Lemmy.
Also, a lot of the worst memes came from one single account. I have since blocked that one person and it improved the situation remarkably. And for anyone who wants to attack me for “not being able to stand hearing other people’s opinions”, the memes this person (or to be real, probably bot) posted were factualy incorrect, badly made and not funny in any way. I don’t come to Lemmy for political discussion but for memes and other fun threads.
* This is just about my personal opinions and doesn’t effect anything I wrote above but here we go. Read if you want. Regarding the endorsements of China, Russia and North Korea my main problem is that I think democracy is the most important feature of a state for I think yhat the state should exist to serve it’s people and to do so in a way that reflects the people’s wills. Therefore, I have a really hard time supporting any non democratic state. Also, in regards to Russia, they invaded Ukraine! I have a very hard time having any empathy for a state that shows such violent aggression against one of their neighbours. Especially as I can not see how Russia or the rest of the world stands to gain anything from this war. Ofc North Korea and China have also done horrible things but I think have have gotten my point across at this point, I think democracy and free speech is important. That said, if someone can point to a particular part of, or some project of, some non democratic country that’s working well and then say “hey, maybe we should try that”, then I have no problem with that. But fully endorsing and saying that we should be like a, for example, China to me is a absolutely horrible idea.
Also, because people will claim that I did even though I didn’t say a shit about it, I do not either particularly like the US. What I said about democracy and not invading other countries applies to them to. I’m also not from the US but rather from Sweden in the EU
EDIT: after reading even more of this thread I think I’m starting to understand that many people just support Russia and China because there a counterweight to the US. For me this could maybe be a valid argument for supporting some of what China does but it does not for me mean that I can endorse China and their non democracy leadership and darker sides. Things simply don’t add up for me, I can’t support China because the US shouldn’t get to powerful because China should neither have that power.
I have a really hard time supporting any non democratic state.
And China is a democratic state, unless you’re just using “democratic” here as a code-word for “western capitalist”, which I’m guessing you are.
I have a very hard time having any empathy for a state that shows such violent aggression against one of their neighbours.
Yeah! That aggression should be shown to countries far away, in the Global South! Invading countries on other continents is fine, just not your own…
I think democracy and free speech is important.
Which is why I will support the enemies of the countries with the greatest history of overthrowing democratic governments, supporting dictatorships, violently suppressing opposition, and murdering journalists. Those countries being the USA and the EU members.
But fully endorsing and saying that we should be like a, for example, China to me is a absolutely horrible idea.
Why? Do they not bomb enough countries for you? Are you horrified to see a country where people are better off each year rather than worse?
I’m also not from the US but rather from Sweden in the EU
And the EU is just as fucking bad as the USA.
China and their non democracy leadership
They are a Democracy, you chauvinist, certainly as much as the West is. You just mean they aren’t western capitalists.
US shouldn’t get to powerful because China should neither have that power.
The US has gotten to powerful, and it’s done far more heinous shit than China ever did. This is peak example of westerners being terrified of non-westerner having power because they assume they’ll be as abusive with it as you have.
Who are pushing pro-China narratives? Who are pushing pro-Western narratives? What are their motives and, at the end of the day, who is benefiting from it all? Do the words of the politicians whom you support match their actions, or they just looking out for the bottom line? There are states that treat their citizens with dignity and there are states that do an exceptional job of convincing their citizens that they are being treated in a dignified way.
You don’t have to be reflexively pro-China or pro-West. Evidence from reputable sources has been provided throughout this thread and in all corners of the internet. The people who can best answer your question have led you to the water. It is up to you to drink it.
Tribalism is a cancer. We dont need it anymore.
United we stand, divided we fall.
OP was banned from Memes@lemmy.ml for trying to push the “Chinese spy balloons” thing and posted this thread to cry about it.
wow this one spawned a hell of a struggle session
wait until you see that there there’s a ~200 comment thread on the snark comm discussing this thread in addition!
ahahahha where?
cw: nazi bar
I can’t imagine a more useless waste of time than being on a community dedicated to anti-communism. What’s funny is when the literal fascists join in and the anti-communist liberals are always surprised that their nazi-bar is welcoming of nazis.
The australian running that comm has such a predictable worldview
‘left right terminology doesn’t have a place’ - sounds like they prefer the third position.
They’re a zionist, but in the mealymouthed ‘two state solution’ vein, probably due to their shared experience as a colonial occupier.
Checks out. PJ has similar views, the MWoG regulars seem to all roughly orbit around the social chauvanist viewpoint. Essentially, SocDems that really like NATO and the IMF, they just want more of the spoils of imperialism while maintaining it.
We liberated them from Fascism, and they will never forgive us.
.
China has human rights. E.G. Trans people get gender affirming healthcare, jobs, food, and housing. Something that the U.S. does not guarantee and is actively trying to ban transgender affirming care. One of the most famous people in China is Jin Xing a trans woman. The Chinese government does not restrict transgender people in the same way that the UK and the U.S. does. Largely it is social stigma that remains in China, which will and has been changing over time.
Tbh in China it varies a LOT by region how you’ll be treated socially. There’s some places where trans people have dedicated medical centers and others where they’ll be persecuted. It’s a failure of uneven development they’re trying to fix. The govt there recently banned the sale of hormones online which really complicated things for trans women.
The govt there recently banned the sale of hormones online which really complicated things for trans women.
That’s if you don’t have a prescription, while the process is some what tedious to get a prescription people were giving themselves doses far above what is recommended so it was out of concern for safety not a malicious intent unlike what we see in Western countries. I would like to see China do informed consent for HRT and lift some of the barriers though.
As far as the rural v urban divide, it is a tale as old as time, not something unique to China, but at least they are doing something about it.
You can get hormones by eating gonads (eg ovaries, uterus, testes), that’s part of how those meds are made. So it won’t stop people from getting them, it just means their doses will be unpredictable.
What’s your point?
I agree that treatment seems a non issue, but from what I’ve seen the social stigma is incredibly significant. I forget their handle, but there was a trans man on rednote that had alot to say about the stigma in his part of china. That isn’t to say the US is any better though.
That’s Theo and his rednote videos are very insightful. There probably could be better education surrounding trans people done in China to help reduce the stigma, but that is the case in nearly every country. I think as people continue to be open and vulnerable about what it means to be transgender and people become more exposed to transgender people that social stigma will change. It is part of why I live openly and honestly as a trans person. Every generation of queer folk has paved the way for the rest of us.
Ah thank you for the name drop! And yeah, I hope things improve!
And the situation with the uigurs?
China’s claim is that anything that is being done is being done to combat islamic fundamentalist groups/extremists. This seems to be backed up by international support from Muslim countries.
Genocide claims were always unfounded. However, no matter how nice the guided tours of reeducation facilities look, they are still in effect prisons, and we of course don’t know about the things that we aren’t being shown.
If your position on the topic is anything more than “They may or may not be treated that good”, you have information that nobody else has.
There are prisons, of course. Every country has them. And some terrorists did get prosecuted and imprisoned. They weren’t hypothetical terrorists. Locals were getting stabbed, shot, run over, and bombed by them. So of course any non-radicalized Uyghur—which were the vast majority—wanted the terrorism to stop as much as anyone else, just as there were scarcely any US Muslims cheering as the Twin Towers fell. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_China#Chronology_of_major_events
But the job training facilities weren’t/aren’t prisons. Those who didn’t live near the schools traveled in for the week, received room & board, and went back home on weekends.
I appreciate your correction Davel. I’ve seen some of your posts/comments in the past and they have always been informative on this topic.
I understand western notions of prisons paint ugly pictures of grey walls and metal bars so if they are given that much autonomy during the process, maybe that term was misleading and I apologize.
I do take issue with the hypothetical terrorist rebuttal though, because the same thing can be applied to the US policies. Yes, we did have terrorist attacks done against us. That doesn’t mean that every person we locked up as a terrorist was one.
You might have the trust that China is telling the truth and isn’t doing something similar, that’s a valid enough position to have. Im still not personally convinced.
Yes, we did have terrorist attacks done against us. That doesn’t mean that every person we locked up as a terrorist was one.
I’m sure some mistakes were made because no system will ever be perfect, but socialist states are fundamentally different from a capitalist, imperialist, globally hegemonic state. Without evidence, there’s no reason to assume that China’s handling of it was analogous to ours.
I have disagreements that China is currently socialist, but that is outside the scope of the original discussion.
Most Western Marxists do disagree, as I also used to.
Cultural genocide is still genocide. You can get into if it’s to combat extremism as a separate statement.
Cultural genocide is still genocide.
Yes, by some laws/conventions/definitions of genocide it is, but China isn’t even doing that. Previously. Previously.
What about it? Say what you mean.
The genocide of them that ML refuses to acknowledge.
Alright, I expect some evidence of that claim. Please no CIA sources, I’d like to save us some time.
“please give me evidence” “only sources I like”. I’m not wasting my time sourcing things that you will deny.
You can’t bring us evidence because there isn’t any.
The US tried to foment division in China by funding and organizing Salafi terrorist into Xinjiang, and once its efforts failed, it made lemonade out of its lemon by concocting and promoting a genocide narrative.
The only countries pushing this narrative are the “always the same map” imperial core countries, which just so happen to be largely the same ones supporting Israel’s genocide.
Almost no predominantly-Muslim country buys the Uyghur genocide narrative, because they know it’s bullshit, because they talked to the Uyghurs themselves.
https://twitter.com/un_hrc/status/1578003299827171330#HRC51 | Draft resolution A/HRC/51/L.6 on holding a debate on the situation of human rights in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region of #China, was REJECTED.
- The Uyghur Human Rights Project is a product of the National Endowment for Democracy, which is the American government’s main regime change NGO.
- A Reddit AMA Claiming To Be A Uyghur Quickly Exposes A CIA Asset Slandering China
- The Xinjiang Genocide Allegations Are Unjustified
- Uyghur genocide allegations
- American Debunks All Major Western Propaganda on Uyghurs and Xinjiang
- US-Funded Uyghur Activists Train as Soldiers of Empire
- The blueprint of regime change operations How regime change happens in the 21st century with your consent
We absolutely do refuse to acknowledge a thing that never happened, that the US/CIA/NED made up after their “color revolution” attempt failed.
Lol, OP is mad they got their post removed for claiming that Covid was a Chinese bioweapon.
I saw China take COVID seriously while I was marched off to work to die because my job was “essential” - the US, EU, Canada, it was basically every Western country except New Zealand (which is an island and basically became a bunker nation for billionaires and shouldn’t really count)
I became pro-China after that.
The best is once covid was declared over usa got tons of laws forcing the removal of what little protections were done.
were the party if fiscal responsibility but all that money you spent needs to get burned because screw any germ protections being kept on our watch
What I learned from covid is a lot of US states had laws criminalizing wearing any kind of mask in public because it’s considered “suspicious” or “threatening” or something, and most states are now reinstating those laws post covid.
Like what the actual fuck?
Well germ theory is woke! Didn’t you know?
My state of Victoria in Australia had one of the longest lockdowns in the world. As someone with an immuno compromised dad I was supportive of it. However the state is now in a lot of debt and having to cut public servants and services.
States without currency sovereignity or trade sovereignity probably can’t respond to pandemics without indebting themselves. If they can’t print money and can’t marshal the forces of production they’re basically reliant on market forces, and capital is happy to punish them for daring to get in the way of profits.
Related, COVID also proved to me that the EU is not a progressive historical force. It similarly turns sovereign nations into dependent states without currency sovereignity or trade sovereignity.
I promise you, they do not actually have to cut public services.
They have to recoup the ~$50 billion spent/invested on covid public health and financial support somehow. Yet they keep digging deeper into the $200 billion suburban rail link.
Also, when Chinese covid lockdowns were perceived as too restrictive and went on for too long, Chinese citizens in many different cities started protesting. Did the evil commie government (A) reenact the Tiananmen Square massacre to silence all opposition or (B) listen to the people and actually drop most of the restrictions? Bet most westoids will pick the wrong answer.
Also, loosening of the lockdowns quickly led to more victims than the initial phase of pandemic. Malcontents were lucky that govt did not caved in sooner.
It’s legitimately insane how people look at the US’s dogshit excuse for a pandemic response and think other countries were too restrictive, when in reality even those that were actually trying like China was still weren’t restrictive enough.
lmfao hooman rights is when you do genocide and jail people protesting it
Russia first invaded Ukraine in 2014 ran a proxy war in the interim and has failed to complete it’s military objectives after nearly four years of total war?
Russia has over a million casualties.
Is this what winning looks like?
It’s not even praising the people of China and Russia, but rather their gov directly. Obviously the states have problems, and the EU to a lesser degree, but they at least have some human rights.
Not sure I agree with your claim that the West have better human rights. They do more anti-privacy stuff than the rest of the world combined, and are starving 2 million people. The USA deprives the most people of their freedom: 1.9 million I’m seeing, and 99% of them never had a trial.
Liberals hear criticism of western countries and respond, “They’re not perfect. They have their little foibles.” Liberals hear criticism of other countries and think they’re pure evil.
The USA deprives the most people of their freedom: 1.9 million I’m seeing, and 99% of them never had a trial.
This is only true if you are denying that china putting people into camps due to their ethnicity and religion.
Not to justify US behaviour here but this comment is disingenuous
This is only true if you are denying that china putting people into camps due to their ethnicity and religion.
No, even if those claims were true (and they’re not), the US would still have more people imprisoned.
That’s only true if you’ve if you’ve seen through the lies that our governments, corporate media, and regime change NGOs told us.
Sure buddy… And the same one that tells me about Gaza and that’s a fake one too!
The people claiming that China is exterminating Muslims literally do say that the Gaza genocide is fake.
Never seen any of this stuff. Not even once.
Given the political leanings of Lemmy’s lead developers, and relatedly the whole reason why Lemmy started development in the first place, it should not be surprising to anyone that many Lemmy users have since the very beginning of Lemmy’s existence had stances that could be called, in a word, “pro-Russia” or “pro-China”.
The problem arises when people who don’t hold these views look at them only through their own myopic biases, where, rather than genuinely interrogating why people might hold these attitudes, they instead more readily believe that a social media platform that most people have never even heard of is actually crawling with paid actors trying to influence public opinion.
No, to understand my own views on Russia, you need to understand my views on Atlanticism; to understand my views on Atlanticism, you need to understand my views on class, among other things. None of that comes across clearly in a one-liner or a four-panel meme. I’m sure I could discuss it in a more fitting space provided I’m not too drained of energy from having stayed up until five in the morning for the umpteenth time.
What an absolute clusterfuck of a thead. Isn’t .ml a leftist lemmy?..
Do you really have to ask this question lol?
Lemmy.world is full of libs who will take you with open arms, trust me.
0·4 months ago.ml isnt leftist in the same way as hexbear and lemmygrad, there aren’t any rules about being a lib. But since the mods are leftists it does lean more towards it.
I mean there are plenty of instances with isolation from the “pro-china and pro-russia stuff” if that’s such a negative thing for the OP to make a post about it.
OP got butt hurt after got his comment removed for still somehow believing the bullshit about COVID been a bioweapon so he made this post.
I believe covid might have been a bioweapon. Just out of fort detrick not wuhan
As does Jeffrey Sachs, who lead the The Lancet COVID-19 Commission in 2020. Why the Chair of the Lancet’s COVID-19 Commission Thinks The US Government Is Preventing a Real Investigation Into the Pandemic
Jeffrey Sachs
Is there a reason we would give more credence to an economist when discussing a pandemic rather than listening to the consensus of epidemiologists around the world?
The authority being highlighted wasn’t Jeffrey Sachs on his own, but The Lancet.
