Does this mean I’ll be able to play apex legends again…
Wasn’t windows on arm designed specificly to break this capability? Linux won’t ever let it in but for windows I’m pretty sure this was one of this ARM things.
Incredibly happy to see the option, but I ain’t gonna run that shit.
No need for the effort. I won’t buy any EA game ever.
If you need kernel access because you don’t trust me not to cheat, I don’t really want to play your game.
Yes!! They could just do holistic anti-cheat data analysis instead.
Kernel access isn’t needed if they use signed boot and can verify everything running is what it should be.
but don’t you need kernel access to verify everything that is running
You want to be sure if the integrity of the binaries that are running. That needs a chain of trust from firmware to user space.
Why care about the binaries when you can have AI write you a script for an ESP32 to scan a video camera and mimic hardware mouse inputs?
‘Never trust the client’, an adage that modern game developers have apparently forgotten. The only thing one can ultimately trust is the server. Anything client-side, beyond keeping honest people honest, is doomed to failure.
Regular (ie, not kernel-level) anti-cheat is as far as it needs to go. Anything delving past that, such as into kernels, is dumb and an increasing level of security risk for the consumer.
I’m sure the biggest reason is because running server side anti cheat is much more expensive for them, so they push the burden of computing power onto the consumer instead of footing the bill themselves. I’m sure there are also more nefarious things going on, but ultimately it all comes down to money if you think about it
Maybe so, but kernel cheats these days are extremely easy to make, even more so on linux (since you can just hotload them at will while windows whines about signing).
‘Never trust the client’ does very little to prevent automation and aimbots.
In league of legends for example, kernel cheats that auto-aim your skillshots and automatically walk out of the enemy’s were really common, especially in high elo, and there is nothing the server can do to prevent them. I’ve seen my fair share of cheaters around GM elo over the years, but now, I don’t think I’ve seen a single one since they added vanguard. Though it does suck that I still need a windows partition.
Kernel level AC only makes sense if you’re not selling games, you’re selling platforms for micro transactions.
They don’t give a fuck about a ‘true’ gameplay experience.
They do give a fuck about not being able to groom children into gambling addictions later in life, and making astounding amounts of money while doing so.
Signed by who?
Signed by EA, of course
The chain of trust will depend on the hardware. I would expect on a Steam Deck it would be Valve all the way. If it was Ubuntu it would be Microsoft then Canonical. I doubt any random distro would be acceptable to the games wanting to enforce anti cheat.
You can secure boot most distros these days. It’s not new either. Depends on who it what their anchor is, and if it’s more limited than just secure boot being active.
Blame the cheaters.
I can’t understand why you have so many downvotes while being spot on.
I mean, I also don’t care about cheaters because I’m not a competitive gamer. So this isn’t for me, anyway. Games should be fun and relaxing, and if you’re playing for money, then it should be on the people selling the product to monitor player behavior, the way any other pro sports league does.
Playing competitively is fun and relaxing for me though. Not everyone is the same
I used to be a competitive gamer, but I didn’t care about cheaters either because…well, just because someone has cheats doesn’t mean they’re good at the game. For the most part I could tell when someone was cheating, but I could still out-gun the cheat and win.
Not everyone can do that of course, but it’s fun to see people cheat and still lose.
While it is not realistic to eliminate all cheaters, what I will say is that cheaters can easily ruin a game, especially one that has lasting consequences such as, for example, Tarkov. Which I did end up stopping playing due to cheaters.
In addition, if you start seriously questioning whether you lost due to the other person’s skill or their cheats after every engagement, then it erodes the game’s foundation and things start falling apart. You can’t do the process of analyzing what you did wrong or could do better, because you might have done the right thing and just lost due to a cheater. You can’t be confident that you could have gotten good enough to win that engagement next time, because it might just be a cheater and be impossible. Strategy goes out the window because you cannot assume that the other person acted rationally in a non-cheaty context. It subverts the rules of the game that you agreed to. Like when you’re playing chess and the other player keeps knocking over your queen with their finger. It simply stops being fun. The game turns into something else
I’ve had similar experiences with this FPS game called krunker.io
Krunker.io is a browser based game, and it had a pretty bad cheating problem, and since it was a browser based gamr, the devs could never implement an anticheat that worked for long.
They implemented a deputization system, where certain respected members of the community would become “krunker police”, and then you could call them from a lobby. They would then invisibly spectate, and record and ban cheaters. The system worked really well, actually. Cheaters were banned quickly, and the requirement collection of video evidence held those involved accountable.
But krunker players had another interesting way of handling cheaters. You see, krunker has really bad netcode, bad enough that you would have to lead hitscan weapons a variable amount depending on how much ping you had. Krunker was also a movement shooter, where you could slidehop and go really, really fasy. The combination meant that you could dodge the shots of cheaters. As I got better, I just stopped calling krunker police, and started beating them. One of my fondest memories was this one lobby full of good players, and when a cheater joined we stomped them below all of us on the ranking, taunting them all the way down. At the end, they tried to sell their cheats and we all laughed. “Why would I buy these cheats? I’m better than them”. Eventually they ragequit. Good times.
But nooooo, nowadays modern game publishers need control over every part of the game. They demand control over the servers, refusing to let anybody host their own communities. They demand absolute control over the community, but refuse to actually moderate it and handle toxicity. And now, they’re demanding control over the clients, forcing you to install rootkits on your computers so they can control those too.
Nah, keep that shit off my PC. If i cant play a game due to not having a proprietary backdoor installed then im fine playing other games i can.
I don’t want EA games on Linux. They can stay on Windows for all that I care.
I’m looking forward to it. Not because I will buy more EA games, but because it will move one of the few barriers left for even wider Linux adoption.
I take it you also want users to stay on Windows.
Normal people don’t care which OS others use.
I think most linux users do, depending on what you mean by caring: more adoption would be better for software support and consumers in general.
But what think is actually weird is to hope that people cannot play a game on linux. Nobody will be forced to play EA games.
I have EA added to ignore list, and i want block list to completely remove it
Do you mean you want the ability to block any post that contains “EA” in the title? I use Voyager for Lemmy, it lets you define a list of blocked keywords.
I want to disable EA in Steam store page. Do not see them again ever, even if they’ll start to pay for using their games. Now that “ignore” works not good - ignored Ubisoft still on top of the page because of deal.
Hopefully, Linux developers will create a tool to blacklist DRMed products from being installed. I don’t want to unwittingly install Enigma, Denuvo, Easy Anti-Cheat, and other foul things onto my machine.
Um, yay? 🤢
This is certainly driven by upcoming Valve hardware. I don’t think any of the smaller devices out in the wild really sell enough units to make them go this far.
Probably. But also just wider Linux adoption. Over 8% of English-speaking Steam users are on Linux now. That number is already at a point where it makes sense to cater to them. Who doesn’t want 8% more sales? Numbers much smaller than that drive quarterly decisions.
(The large disparity between English speaking and not is the Chinese market. Linux has near 0% adoption there. The dip in the last month, for example, corresponds to a single-month doubling of the number of Chinese users in the Steam stats; which also suggests major measurement errors coming out of China.)
Someone pointed out that valve takes surveys in different markets and then extrapolates them. So if they surveyed only china in this last round then that explains the stats entirely.
This is specifically about ARM64 if you read the posting. The only other ARM hardware out there that runs Proton are these random Chinese brands that make emulation focused handhelds. That’s not a segment of the user base that EA would care about.
Now, Valve is turning the entire ARM ecosystem on its end by building out an entire suite of tools to make an emulation layer that makes running Proton on ARM almost entirely possible for the full range of games that already run on Steam, which is huge. That means any ARM device can now run Steam, Proton, AND FEX without much in the way of a barrier. This brings Steam on mobile potentially into olac, MacOS back to the table…etc.
It’s not about Linux users and SteamOS singularly, but the coming expansion into the ARM space.much larger than 4-8%.
I assume the interest in ARM is specifically for the new Steam VR console?
That would make sense. I’ve ignored the entirety of VR for decades, but a Valve VR console running Linux has me considering buying one.
A genuinely large “Meta can go fuck themselves” segment of the potential future VR market might be opening up, soon.
Nope. Anything ARM. Meaning tablets can run x86 games with Proton+FEX if that be the case. Also getting the MacOS segment back into the fold. ARM laptops, hell, maybe even Apple portable devices, who knows.
It’s not just about their own hardware, but my thinking is that the Deck 2 will be ARM for power consumption reasons, so this all makes a lot of sense. The Frame isn’t really just a VR devices, it’s also going to be SteamOS, so that means a virtual desktop and all the usual Linux apps and such. I’m sure it will sell on its own as a productivity device as much as a gaming device. No reason it can’t fill the market gap that awful Apple headset screwed up so poorly.
but my thinking is that the Deck 2 will be ARM for power consumption reasons,
A smaller more portable SteamDeck would be amazing.bSomething with all day battery life that can play Balatro would be… very bad for me, but really fun.
Valve is turning the entire ARM ecosystem on its end by building out an entire suite of tools to make an emulation layer
A bit pedantic but I think it’s worth noting that valve is only funding things that already exist and integrating them into their ecosystem rather than creating them from scratch
Yes, pedantic. Wine existed before Proton, and Valve made it more suitable for use in its own ecosystem with funding and developer time, but also still open and usable for the community writ large.
They’ve also been funding FEX since it’s inception, and likewise commiting development resources for the same purpose, to further their product reach on a wider array of devices.
They aren’t simply gobbling up these fledgling FOSS projects for use in their products as you seem to suggest, they’ve had a long term plan to make milestones and goals that have gotten them to where they are now. That’s the point.
They aren’t gatekeeping anything. They simply have the resources to give these projects they are interested in a boost.
And this comment is why I feel I have to say it. Credit where credit is due, but being this bristly over someone pointing out that the contributions of the open source community aren’t the work of valve and valve alone is ridiculous
Not being bristly at all. Your comments seem to assume: 1) People don’t already know (check the thread you’re in) 2) Valve is doing something wrong, and/or 3) They are somehow at fault for something, like stolen valor or not giving credit where credit is due.
You suggested your comment was pedantic, and I confirmed, and it’s because of your tone. I’m not rage replying to your comments, just correcting the context because I feel you have the wrong take.
Lol, LMAO even.
It’s so sweet of them to think that I don’t play their games because I play on linux and not because I want EA software in my computer as much as I want to drink a shot of arsenic.
What’s a good alternative to their sports games, like EA FC 25 which I’ve been playing a lot recently?
Literally the exact same game every year, just play the older one.
It’s the only version of that game I have, so the question remains whether there’s any alternative that isn’t by EA at all.
Sensible Soccer.
This is why monopolies on teams and player likenesses for games is a bad thing.
Old FIFAs and PESs are playable by emulating consoles. Some of them have mods for modern players.
Yes. I’m super pleased that EA appears to be doing the right thing, here.
Absent everything thing else EA does and stands for, I would applaud this move by buying something from them sometime.
That said, I will continue to abstain from EA games for another few decades. I like the “sense of accomplishment” it gives me.
I won’t buy a single game from them anyway. My ass still hurts after they fucked me last time
Anything that leads to a world where cheaters instantly explode. Can’t get there soon enough. Nothing worse than a cheat!!
Except these kernel-level anti-cheats do absolutely nothing to actually stop cheaters while simultaneously opening your system up to more sophistscted hacks that could be more damaging than someone cheating in a video game.
I don’t and wouldn’t play the kind of games that use it, but nice. I don’t know what running this on proton means, kernel level is also not nice.
I don’t believe there is a viable path for kernel-level anti-cheat on Linux (thank god). What most developers have done is enable normal anti-cheats on Linux, even if they use kernel-level ones on Windows. This is the path they seem to be going down.
Ever since CrowdStrike, I’m a bit amazed Microsoft hasn’t taken a hard stance on the gaping security hole that is kernel-level anti-cheat. It’s bonkers such is expected or even allowed just to play a game.
Microsoft made some statements about working to close that hole, but as I know nothing has actually come of it. Likely just PR.
I’m not that surprised. It’s hard to make a harmful practice stop when it’s backed by so much money.
No thanks EA. You’re on my never buy list.
